No argument there. Part of where we failed them and ourselves was we went through a ‘macho-simp’ phase where it was automatic ‘Thou shalt believe the worst of every man and the best of every woman.’ (SK Smith ‘The Badass Bible,’ ca. early 2000s. It’s a sad indictment of male culture that we sank to a point where such a book could sell…) Delilah and Jezebel should have been lesson enough in the dangers of temptation hiding behind a pretty face.
Personally, I’d say that if it’s a truly amicable split there should be an option where both sides can agree to “No/Equal Fault,” but after that a proportional split of responsibility based on the grievances and legitimacy thereof. False claims get added to the claimant’s share of the liability as ‘treble damages’.
That scenario is much rarer than what is common. What is common is the man not being kind / considerate / a proper friend if not actually neglectful and / or abusive. That’s where vows are broken as far as the woman is concerned. Some men like to pretend that doesn’t count but it does.
It’s messed up to treat a woman like that, tell her “too bad, so sad, you’re stuck with me forever and I’m not changing, girl!” and then tell her she broke the rules / vows by finally leaving or picking up a boyfriend. I’m not saying it’s right, but i can understand.
I don’t automatically side with the man because every story where i knew both sides it was usually, not always, him that was most of the problem. That’s why i don’t place heavy accountability on the woman by default.
As said, pick the right woman for marriage/kids. She may not be the “hot” one one has pined for since his teen years.
Paying for the kids after separation began to be forced by the State because men with no accountability weren’t paying for the care of thier own kids.
Feminism didn’t come first, men’s poor behavior did. Men spawned Feminism.
Sorry, but that is the most common scenario. Most women divorce men, not because they have broken a vow, but because they are not happy. They have an expectation that a man will make them happy, but in reality, they can’t be made to be happy. Because of their hypergamist nature, many women are constantly looking for a better option. Meanwhile, most men are loyal to disloyal women to a fault. I’ve seen this playout over and over again with friends and acquaintances. The irony is that within a year or two it’s the men who end up being better off and in much better relationships while things typically turn out bad for the women. These delusional women think that they’re getting better as they get older. In reality, they look older, weigh more and carry far more mental baggage than they did when they were younger. As a result, they’re less desirable to men.
Ron3, I have a question for you. Does your wife or girlfriend know that you are friends with these cheating hoes?
When they aren’t happy it’s often because the man hasn’t done the bare minimum to make her feel respected, cared about, and befriended.
But yes, there are also immature men & women who demand / expect another person to “complete” them or make them happy. That’s foolish. The exact scenario you describe does happen. Just not the 99% Red Pill fans say it is. They’re just trying to cope & avoid accountability.
Absolutely. We talk about everything.
And she says they should have left at all costs if the situation is as bad as they say before getting into other relationships.
She’s never been in those situations. But she understands how a person can feel locked into a situation with nothing but very hard choices or have some fun while kicking the can down the road. Trauma Bonds can be as strong as addictions to drugs. Heck, many obese people can’t even get away from overeating / eating junk.
My wife knows them but she has no intentions of being close friends with them.
Ron3, have you ever had to get up for work at 0400 and you sit on the side of the bed and stretch because your knees and back hurt so bad you need to get some hot water on them before they work right.
And you’re 35 years old and only have to keep this up for another 30 years until you can retire so it looks pretty hopeless but you have a Wife and Kids so you get up and do it again for another 30 years.
So She’s driving last years new SUV and taking the Kids to Travelling Soccer team league and pay for braces and Piano lessons and yes we need a piano.
I know a MF’er that thoguht he was having a heart attack so he drove to work knowing if it happened there he was a lot better off finacially than having his heart attack at Home.
So perhaps Women dont know or care about those kinds of sacrifices because they dont pay for new SUV’s?
Your wife knows these gold digging whores but doesn’t want to be their friend.
Want to know why? Because women can very easily positively identify gold digging whores, and the good ones don’t want much to do with gold digging whores.
Neither should you.
As for your other arguments defending women in their failed marriages, my anecdotal observations of marriages in the USMC for one deployment and about 20 years of working for a Railroad afterwards are distinctly different that your very generous attitude towards women. Almost invariably she got bored, “lonely”, or otherwise let her feelings control her then took as much money and anything else of value and ran off. All while the dude I knew was in Iraq on orders getting shot at, or was out working like a slave to provide a very comfortable lifestyle for a gold digging whore who spent his money like it was her job.
Now have I known a few douche bags that richly deserved the divorce they got? Yep. I can count them out on one hand though. Probably about a 12:1 ratio of gold digging whores vs actual douche bags.
I’ve also had the misfortune to be stuck on a locomotive for hours on end with a few gold digging whores. A couple of them were married and still wanted to flirt, and probably a few other things. I always felt sorry for the guys dumb enough to engage with them. Always ended up the same way for them, badly.
Only once did a gold digger come out worse for wear, she tried to pull her shit on a dude but he kept meticulous records and he burned her ass to the ground in court.
While a man should do those things, not doing them does not begin to justify cheating. How about they talk to their spouses like an adult? If that ultimately doesn’t work, then file for divorce.
She’s spot on correct with that, but not wise to allow you to hang out with them.
The women in my family and my wifes have always worked outside of the home. Got college degrees, had kids, and worked. Straight into thier 60’s and 70’s.
I can think of one grandmother who stopped working in her 40’s. Was a nurse.
The men always worked, too. Sometimes they earned more than the woman, sometimes not. Much of the men were mediocre husbands plus several alcoholics. None of the women have been greedy or wasteful spenders. Never violent, no mental illness, none ever hooked on drugs or alcohol. Not even fat. Okay…the Grandma who retired early was about 50 lbs overweight. (RIP)
So, we grew up with men usually being the problem. When i look out / talk to people / coworkers that’s alot of what i see. I’ve seen some messed up women, too.
IME, which is apparently very different than some of yours, I’ve seen nothing showing me men have any moral or accountability superiority over women to talk. Nor the ability to “lead”. Quite the opposite.
I think as I grew older I began to understand that everyone had some sort of character flaw, Everybody.
In learning to fogive, you get the freedom to pick and choose your role models and take selective character traits and leave the bad ones behind. Kind of a Cafeteria way to build your self.
Fortunately, I have seen the opposite from my older male family members. I obviously can’t speak for the women in your family, but most women will not be happy in that sort of environment. Most women desire men who achieve a high social status, provide and lead. On the other hand, men do not desire the same in women. Most men want desire women who are attractive, fit, feminine and loyal. The greater financial achievement of women in modern times has ironically left them with a smaller pool of men that they consider datable or marriage material.
Me, too.
Could have been worse. I wasn’t physically beaten much or SA’d at least.
I’ve tried to take the best from each.
When you include school teachers it’s safe to say I’m a mix of female education and leadership at home, mixed male influence, much of it bad, and plenty of neglect.
When one is mature and introspective enough, it’s interesting and important to dive into your childhood and sus out why you are the way you are.
Once you understand yourself you can make some improvements.
I got taught school by “The Greatest Generation”, so there was a fair mix of Classic Literature and Farm Shop.
My Favorite Teacher was a 18 year old Marine in WWII so there was still a good mix of Strong Men around. We also had a NRA sponsered Rifle Team.
Times changed Guys could make a lot more money doing stuff besides teaching school. I mean that old guy taught welding, carpentry, woodworking and drafting, so I’m sure he was there because he wanted to be.
If were at a loss for Good example perhaps were looking in the wrong place or our definition of “Good” has changed?
Her father & stepfather were alcoholics. Her Mom was a pushover. So my wife learned to be self-sufficient and not rely on or trust men. I’m self-sufficient, reliable, trustworthy, and pretty fit. So she married me.
The women in my family are not pushovers. So I’m used to that. We’re a good match.
Say what you will but Women (Like Men) still fall for the Same BS everytime. And I’m pretty sure you would have to agree.
At 66 I can look back and say “Becomming a Good Man is an evolutionary Process.”. In other words I’m a better Man now than I was at 20, 30, 40 or 50.
But as my flabby butt sits in this Chair, I’m retired, I’m not competing for the next promotion, going to College after Work at night or dropping my Son off at Day Care. So, without the Stress I was under it’s a lot easier to be compassionate, attentive and affectionate.
So I think perhaps a Guy puts a lot in to trying to be a provider Family and becomes distant to them, but in a way, only because they allow it.
If you’ve brought some work home in your mind, does that mean you don’t Love your Family?
(RIP)
