lol. Yep, sounds about right, A friend of mine for the last 30 years carries a hi power. And when he shoots, he gets the cheapest aluminum cased ammo he can. I run that cheap shit for normal range session in my beater guns, But no in a hi power.
So I just looked 77grain 5.56 is about $1.25 a round.
Underwood 357sig 65 grain Leighi Defense is$ 2.25 a round
Underwood 10mm Leight Defense is $1.80 a round.
So it is a buck a round more than the rifle ammo, but it gives me rifle like performance in a weapon that I can either conceal carry or carry it in a small back pack.
The real question is the 9mm Leighi Defense it comes in at $1.42 a round , in a Glock 34 it goes over 1900fps, I would like to see what it can do out of a 6 to 7 inch barrel .
When we shot the hogs the wounds from the 357sig were like 20% I am guessing more damage. The question is would that matter in a person and I am thinking not so much.
So maybe I will go back to 9mm and just forget about my mental gymnastics , that I do when the mental gymnastics fro, business make me crazy
I don’t like short rifle barrels.
IMHO the max size / weight limit on a PDW is the MP5K form.
Otherwise a 16 in barrel rifle either bullpup or folding stock is what i want.
I think many people misunderstand the role of a PDW, it is something small, light and shoots easier than a handgun. A rifle caliber weapon no matter how short you cut down the barrel a PDW it does not make.
In this day and age a PDW is something you can carry into your house of worship, that you can carry in a small enough bag not to have people question what’s in the bag. Something that you can access easily and get it up and deployed. I would argue also the blast difference between a pistol caliber and a 7 inch AR in 5.56 is huge and it will have a negative effect on you and others around you.
My first for real rifle was either an AK47 or the old CAR15 with a pencil thin 16 inch barrel and they both served me well. Or at least good enough that I am writing this and the enemy isn’t posting on any forum.
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Deployment time is very important, too.
I have a PTR clone of the MP5K, works great with ball ammo. But chokes on Leighi Defense rounds.
Most of my mags are Turkish.
Can these guns be throated to feed rounds better?
Dunno whether it can be fixed, but MP5s are infamous for their preference for RN FMJ. The Lehighs are the flattened Phillips style, right?
My Turk AP5P (Century import version, not MAC version) would occasionally choke on the first or last round of fmj with Turk mags.
But it runs perfectly with HK mags. (15 & 30)
For JHP, it rarely got through a Turk mag without a stoppage. With HK mags, it works perfectly on MOST JHP’s. It chocked on a Gold Dot and several Critical Duty +P. But several other designs worked fine. It has cycled over 500 rds of Fiocchi 147 gr JHP (the Fiocchi bullet) without a problem. So, even though the powder makes a white fireball without the suppressor, that’s what i load it with if it’s “on duty”.
Even with the HK mags, it chocked on the LeHigh bullets loaded by Underwood.
I have a brace and 80 degree locking lug with it. It will occasionally fail to cycle 115 gr standard pressure, but I’m almost out of that stuff & won’t buy more. 124 gr and heavier in 9x19 for me & this, the only 9x19 gun i have left.
I sold all of my Turk mags and only have HK ones now.
I like the gun, but not the trigger. A bit heavy & long. I have a semi VZ61 with folding brace, three-lug, optic, and non-vertical forend “grip” that i enjoy firing more and it’s much lighter & compact. But…it has only 20 rd mags and fires 73 gr FMJ bullets @ 1100 fps. (7.65x17r / .32 acp) (S&B chronographed) Excellent trigger though.
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That’s correct.
So can my MP5k stand up to Hirtenberger L7A1 +P+ ammo?
I would think yes just want to check before I shoot some to test it and then carry it
We used to use Federal 9bple in our MP5s, which is a hot +p+ round. I am not sure how that compares to the L7A1, though.
I saw it for sale at several Knob Creek shoot for use only in open bolt sub guns, but apparently that wasn’t correct.
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I try and resolve this in my mind and I really can’t see how a PDW works better for me then a SBR. It seems a rather expensive proposition to fill a niche between a SBR and a High Caliber Pistol with a light and a red dot.
So it sounds cool and everything, a very small pistol caliber shouldered fired carbine.
I’m just thinking the reality of the cash necassary to support another Gun isn’t in my economic future. If I did have the money, it would probobly go to body armor, better optics first.
I think PDWs in the USA, aren’t really performing a task at this time for the vast majority of the people. If you live outside major cities and aren’t part of a targeted group, then I have no problem with someone that has a pistol and a rifle SBR or longer barrel length.
Prior to Oct. 7th and the muslism communist radicals on the streets and universities, I very rarely carried or used a PDW. Today when I go to a kosher supermarket or a synagogue in the USA I have a pistol and a PDW in a bag,
In Israel I always had a pistol and depending on what long gun I brought home from work a SBR M4 type rifle or a 5.56 rifle set up for mid range sniping , or a mini or micro closed bolt Uzi plus a pistol.
In the small village i live in at synagogue we always had 4 to 6 rifles, I always brought my sniper 5.56 rifle because to the west of the location of had 600 meters of open grass that the terrorist would have to cross to get to us.
A gun is a tool, nothing more nothing less. A home owner might have 1 electric hand drill, where a guy that works in construction probably has multiple drills for multiple missions.
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One of the big benefits of a PCC / PDW to me is training.
Many rifle ranges do not allow rapid fire and / or movement due to capability of the berm and / or distance the bullet can stay lethal.
It’s often pistol / PCC / shotgun ranges that allow more opportunities for realistic training and steel targets.
exactly why i have a colt 6951, same optic and controls as my 5.56 rifle. Just in 9mm, cheaper to shoot.
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Well, if that’s the only point, then my S&W M&P 15/22 is just about right…
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I have a PTR clone of the MP5K, works great with ball ammo. But chokes on Leighi Defense rounds.
Dunno whether it can be fixed, but MP5s are infamous for their preference for RN FMJ.
And that’s a big reason I stopped looking at “legacy” type SMG/PDW and decided to focus more on the chassis-pistol concept. That and potential price.
I have been messing about with my Glock in the recovery tactical, doing drill on getting it out of the bag and into shooting position. Because it is a Glock I was not going to carry a round in the chamber if the trigger guard wasn’t covered.
So the drill was grab the gun, swing the brace out and rack the pistol. It was just too busy and too many things to move that were big movements.
I started thinking about what I could do to simplify it and be able to carry a round in the barrel. I remembered those “safety” plugs that you insert behind the cocked trigger. 5 minutes later I have bought one on Amazon.
I got the plug and started to drill using it, I wasn’t happy with the results. It wasn’t giving me the positive 100% of the time removing from behind the trigger as my left hand was sweeping the brace open. So I understood the problem was I wasn’t able to eject the plug with velocity enough to get 100% clearance rate. So I thought about it and understood the problem was that the unit didn’t stick out far enough from behind the trigger. So I went to my shop and got a file and JB weld, I had bought the aluminum plug rather than the plastic models. They were within a few bucks of each other or the same price, so I bought the Aluminum one.
I took a file to the tip of the plug to rough up the metal so the JB weld would have a better surface to attach too.
I achieved success, now as I am swinging the brace open my trigger finger hits the extension of JB weld and the plug comes out with such force it is like projectile vomiting the plug out.
The aluminum plug also came with a hole drilled though it, I was launching the plug so far that I got tired of hunting for it on the floor. So i took some kevlar string and made an idiot string, so now it pops out and hangs by the string.
I have a red dot on this thing and does it win tacticool points not so much. But does it fit the function I want, for a PDW that is easy to carry into kosher grocery stores and synagogues yep.
So I have a small sized weapon that with the 5.3 inch barrel sends Leight Defense rounds down range at 2100fps. So the pistol is carried with a 15 round mag in the gun plus 1 in the pipe, 5 22 round mags in the bag for a total of 126 rounds.
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Pictures would be gold, Yoni!
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