Not really, the reciprocating slide doesn’t really appeal to me. I’d rather have a B&T TP9 with the better optics rail and less moving mass.
10.5" 556 AR. Easy to aquire, inexpensive, reliable.
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Thanks for the input.
There is a pretty wide range of weapons that folks consider to be PDWs. Cross pollination with SBRs and Subguns as well. I’m not preaching or nothing, just saying. I actually think the wide range is pretty valid. I think of PDW as more of a role than a specific weapon type.
For my thinking a PDW should be capable of effective engagement distances of at least 50-100 yards preferably out to maybe as far as 200. Yet still be capable of discrete transport on your person or in a vehicle during the course of other activities.
I wouldn’t say I’ve got a perfect weapon in mind. I own a few that could serve in the role.
10.5" 5.56 AR SBR
12.5" 7.62 AK SBR w/triangle folder
7.5" 7.62 AK SBR w/wire folder
4" 9mm AR SBR w/can under carbine handguard.
Certainly 300BLK shorties fit the bill, I just don’t have any. I’m not totally convinced about the efficacy of 9mm at longer ranges. I can make good hits at 100 but not sure about the terminal performance.
No offense to the OP, but I don’t think I would be happy with 32ACP. That’s ok, you do you.
The idea is a gun more capable than a common pistol, but not as big as a short-barrelled rifle, which a 10.5 in AR is.
But then you’ve kind of relegated yourself to mostly Pistol caliber guns. I’m not sure about 10 mm, but the performance out of anything less, likely just isn’t going to cut it, at least from what I have read.
So again you have to decide if a PDW is for 50 yards and inside, 100 yards and inside or out to 200 yards. I too think 5.56 from a 10" barrel SBR is a bit outside the purpose of a PDW. There are special application rounds like 4.6mm and 5.7mm but honestly unless you have the actual ammo they are almost worthless and even if you have the actual ammo beyond the armor piercing capability they aren’t ballistically impressive. It’s basically a boutique round for CQB with terrorists on a bus or plane who are wearing body armor.
So for everyone else, yeah it’s a handgun round in a more capable platform that is almost handgun size. So long as you are using decent defensive ammo 9mm is gonna be fine. You don’t need 10mm or .357 SIG, that is a less important consideration than solid optics platform, full capacity magazines, decent folding stock, weapon light and suppressor compatible. There is a reason HK discontinued the MP5 in .40 and 10mm, part of it is certainly things like the 6933/6945 got damn close to the same size and the FBI and others decided to move from subguns to a M4 type platform, but the other reason is those who decided to stay with the MP5 realized the 9mm really could do most of what the .40 and 10mm did, the only real innovation was the bolt hold open setup.
Then you are looking at a 6-8 inches 9mm carbine/pistol such as the MP5, CZ Scorpion, etc., to be used at 50-75 yards.
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It is Very difficult, if not impossible, to get a 556 round down to 1000FPS using off the shelf components, or intentionally loading down to ultra light loads.
I chronographed my 7.5" “PDW” and it launches 77gr bullets at just under 2100FPS.
Probably, yes. Is that worth having over (or in addition to) a common pistol? That’s the discussion intended.
I’m not a fan of the “pistol brace” so legally I’m talking about an SBR. No matter the caliber.
I think a 10" 223/556 is more an SBR and not PDW. But a shorter barrel in 300 blk or 338 spectre or in a pistol caliber with lightweight stock, etc gives a lot more controllability than a handgun and is small, light weight, and easier to conceal in a bag or pack or under a jacket or whatever than a larger SBR or even larger “carbine”. I’ve seen some pretty sweet PDW sized stock/receiver combos for AR style platform with a short 8" barrel etc.
I used to have an SP89 that was converted to an MP5K (remarked and everything) by Terry Dyer with folding Choate HK marked stock and a registered sear. I eventually sold it when I realized my family needed a house more than I needed that gun and I had more than 20 years enjoyment. It was fun and kind of met my requirements above but I think modern firearms designs can do it better with less weight. (FWIW the house is still an ongoing project and I wish I had a few more NFA weapons to sell as with the economic changes of the last couple years the project has gotten a lot more expensive than planned)
disclaimer: I’m not a pro. I’ve thought about it a lot though if that counts. What for me would be a real practical “PDW”.
As the saying goes, what’s the reason for a pistol? To get yourself to a rifle…
A PDW is kind of in between but has the advantage of being more controllable. If you frequent places where you may need something to defend yourself with a PDW handy is never a bad thing. I may not carry one on my trip to HD but having one in the vehicle and also having it in the house handy “just in case” would never put you at a disadvantage.
That’s pretty impressive. Factory or hand load? Black Hills 68 grain came up about the same in the RifleShooter test.
They are easier to control than a handgun. They are fun.
But only you can answer that question.
Would I rather use a rifle round for self defense? Definitely.
If nothing else, it would be a fun gun for all the family to shoot and a good training tool.
This is true for untrained people. If you look at uspsa results, pccs dont dominate, the rankings are very similar with pistol shooters of the same level. A gm with a pistol will out-perform a b, or likely even a-class guys with the weapon of his choice.
Without FA or rifle caliber capability, I think they are a fad.
I know I can’t outshoot Jerry with a handgun, even if I have a PDW. But I know I shoot better with a PDW than I do with just a handgun. I suspect if those GMs trained with PDWs to the same extent they do with a handgun, they would still shoot in the same class.
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What has more ammo and stopping power than a 9mm pistol?
Answer: A PDW or a Rifle, pick one, or better both. It is good to have options.
In addition, as stated above, you can’t carry a loaded rifle in your vehicle in most States.
This is really a matter of portability. In my state I can openly carry a loaded M4, but there would need to be a lot of stuff going on for me to do that.
People carry handguns simply because they are portable and concealable, nobody thinks they are superior to a rifle in terms of ballistics (and I know you know that). PDWs are just in that middle ground where they are portable enough IF a person thinks the situation warrants it.
90% of the time I have only a handgun on my person.
If at home and I’m checking out the yard for some reason, it’s gonna be a SBR, usually a 6933, sometimes a MP5.
But if I’m away from home and there is something else going on, I’ll throw a PDW into a laptop bag.
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Easier, faster hits is the big one for me.
The “No loaded long guns in vehicle” law applies in my state. No open carry of anything, either. (Unless hunting, fishing, camping, with permission at your place of buisness, and a couple of other exceptions)
And yes, ammo sitting beside the unloaded long gun or on your person is considered “loaded” AFAIK.
Dupes