Thoughts on "Generation Kill"?

General General Discussion
1

Well, I just finished what I think is a decent work of inspired fiction and would like to know what some other folks here think about it.

For those that haven’t heard of it, it follows a Marine Recon platoon (Company? Unit? I’m bad with military phrases) for approximately the first month of what came to be known as “Operation Iraqi Freedom”.

On one hand, I’m sure that someone will think that it’s trying to portray our Military as “baby-killers” while I think that it’s attempting to portray the disconnect between the boots in the front and the commanders in the rear, and the consequences thereof.

The overall impression I was left with was almost as if some commanders posed a greater threat to the common soldier (or Marine) than any hadji did.

Anyway, I just wanted to hear what anyone else thought about it, good, bad or indifferent.

2

Supposedly, there are many “Vets” in the film. If I was a “civilian” it would only make me hate the Mil. more than some already do. Even our worst front line units, not to mention third string are not this inept. Lot’s of BS here.
Don’t judge our military on this crap. Those "co’s and idiots would not make it for long. BS alert!! BS alert!!
The real mil. and Vet’s know better.
dog

3

We had a discussion here when it first aired.
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=15487&highlight=generation+kill

4

It was a Movie!

It’s not meant to be accurate.
It’s not a training film.

It’s meant to be entertaining.
The real world is boring as hell
and makes a bad movie.

I loved it and I wish it were
a recurring series.

5

I did not enjoy the series…

I have talked to no Iraq vets in my community that thought it was a fair protrayal.

I have been a big fan of HBO mini-series in the past, this one hurt their credibility as far as I am concerned.

My .02.

David

6

That’s exactly what I was looking for, thanks!

7

I saw the series and read the book, so in some ways I mix the book and the movie in my head. And they are pretty consistent, but there is more explaination and info in the book. I especially like the afterword in the book, it really adds some texture, Casey Kasam isn’t always a d!ck.

Hat’s off to the location manager for the series. Never been to Iraq, but it seemed to match what I had in my head from the book. I bet they got to be experts in berms.

I didn’t see where Capt. America ended up in the long run?

Interesting that the actor that played Colbert is now a Vampire sherriff in “True Blood”.

8

I also read the book and watched the series. I enjoyed the book, but hated the series. I was actually looking forward to the last show so that I could be done with it. To me (non-military but pro-military) the series cast the marines in a bad light where the book, although it reported the same unfortunate things that happened, did it in a way that made most of the unfortunate stuff what they were. Unfortunate occurances of war. The series came across as anti-war hippie propoganda.

9

I haven’t read the book nor have I seen the mini-series, but it’s my understanding that a couple of the guys from the book participated in the making of the mini-series. I will also say that from my own personal perspective of a decade of service spread out from Bush senior to now, that real Warrior commanders don’t make it to the top ranks of the Army very often. They make the bean counters and management nervous because they don’t play politics and kiss ass to get ahead and do realistic training with their troops. I know some will disagree with me on this, but I’ve seen it. It had even permeated the NCO Corps to a serious degree when I left Active Duty in 97. I did get a very real sense from this last deployment I did with the Guard that it’s not gotten any better. 99.9% of our training for deployment was so risk adverse that I felt dumber for having gone through it.

10

I loved Band of Brothers from the first few minutes I saw of it. I ran across Generation Kill several times on HBO and could not make myself sit down and watch it. The vibe seemed very negative to me.

Band of Brothers was able to portray the soldiers and the war effort in a positive light, while simultaneously exposing the bureaucracy and screw ups of the military leaders:

The harsh treatment by the idiot boot camp captain that couldn’t field navigate his way out of a paper bag. The lack of supplies during Bastogne, while the colonel told them to “hold the line boys, I’m counting on you” even though they didn’t have winter clothes, ammo, food, and couldn’t build fire to keep warm for fear of the smoke revealing their position. The new captain sent from HQ that had no interest in actually leading battle, and ending up cowering behind a hay bale before getting blown up by artillery. The kid right out of the academy that was checking boxes so he could get promoted as fast as possible.

The overall vibe of BoB is that nothing is ever perfect, humans make all kinds of mistakes, leadership is never as good as you wish, except maybe at the platoon or company level (i.e. Richard Winters), but you do the best with what you have, and stick with your buddies to get them through it all.

What little I saw of Generation Kill was nothing like BoB. I just got this really negative vibe that the message was everything is pointless and futile and nothing matters in the end. Perhaps that is wrong, and perhaps I should give it another shot, but my first impression is that the show was written from the point of view of an anti-war liberal with an agenda.

But I haven’t served in Iraq or anywhere else, so again I really have no clue.

11

I thought the book was excellent, the mini-series was about as accurate as Band of Brothers. Both were entertaining. The writer was there with those guys…it’s what he saw. People might not like it, but that doesn’t make it false. I’d also point out that while Stephen Ambrose is a popular historian, he’s not really a great scholar. GK was written by a reporter writing down what he witnessed, and often he didn’t really understand the context of what was happening, he is a civilian after all.

The people that intensely disliked it are invariably annoyed because it didn’t paint a flattering portrait of SOME marines, especially inept, “chickenshit” leadership. This had nothing to do with combat, or war crimes (combat sucks), but guess what, Marines are foul-mouthed, oversexed and not always the brightest bulbs in the bunch (especially Marine officers). That being said I don’t think it was unflattering at all, it was just honest, the good, the bad and the ugly. So what?

Having served with the FMF as a Navy Corpsman, this the reality of Uncle Sam’s MISGUIDED Children and I say the above with all the love in my heart. It felt real to me. Civilians aren’t EVER going to understand what serving in the Marines is like so what they might see as sociopathic behavior is actually how things are and SHOULD be.

The people portrayed in it were real, and I’ve seen interviews with the main principles including Gunny Wynn, Sgts Colbert, Kocher, Carzales, Rudy Reyes (who played himself in the mini-series) all participated. If that’s not an endorsement of its veracity I don’t know what is.

I’m sure people were annoyed that Frist Recon didn’t come off as “white knights”, but the reality of war is that not everyone is a hero, and that sometimes those that fight wars aren’t always intellectuals or gentlemen. If some senior leadership was annoyed by the book/movie…too f’in bad. The “zero defect” policy cannot stand up to scrutiny.

War sucks…if that means there is a “negative” vibe. BFD.

12

Remember the reporters hangout with low level grunts, their prespective is different. I have since read “One Bullet Away: The Making of a Marine Office” by Nathaniel Fick, his boook was approved by the Marine Corp. for publishing. Many of the incidents did happen, but Fick gave a different perspective and reasoning from officers stand point, even if he doesn’t always agree, he gave them benefit of doubt. The update of Generation Kill (the book) have Encino Man now leading an “elite unit”. :confused:

Here’s Eric Kocher giving his 2cent. http://www.bigthink.com/user/eric-kocher

13

If GK is that accurate, maybe I’ll give it another shot. Perhaps it was just the way it was filmed, or edited, but it did not capture my attention and draw me in like BoB. Maybe the best thing to say is that they might not have gotten the right balance between accuracy, entertainment, and good story telling. It’s not a documentary, it’s a dramatization, but it felt like a bad documentary.

14

From my perspective it was the most accurate representation of a book onscreen I’ve ever seen.

Where they did deviate was actually in toning things down as they might have been too disturbing for a mass audience. Especially the checkpoint shootings.

The book is MUCH more disturbing and MUCH better.

15

Come on you guys!! The author of the book Generation Kill is a writer for Rolling Stone magazine, probably the most liberal large cirulation magazine out there. that SOB had no intention of writing anything about the US military let alone the United States Marines that would make the United States look good.
He was there? So what, he’s a liberal scumbag!! He’s probably a member of the Communist Writer’s Union.
Semper Fidelis,
Tipy

16

Horse puckey.

There was no liberal bias and the “communist writer’s union” statement is nonsense.

Read the book, then offer an informed opinion.

17

John when were you in the United States Marine Corps? You want to talk smak about the Marine Corps go join and do your time. The writer had an agenda, make the US and the Marine Corps look bad. he covered his agenda up by doing “authentic” writing from the grunts point of view. I got my ass shot off in 1968 and I will tell you, Generation Kill is not the Marine Corps. I read the book. The writer is a liberal scum bag!!
Semper Fidelis,
Tipy

18

Since you obviously missed the point. Re-read what I wrote. No one is talking smaCk about the Marines. I did my time with the FMF. I see no reason to justify my experience to you or anyone else.

That being said, you can’t say that there is no such thing as “chickenshit” in the Marines or in the military writ large.

The writer had an agenda, make the US and the Marine Corps look bad.

You have no way of knowing what is in his mind or in his heart, moreover if you ACTUALLY read the book, you’ll see that he’s a lot more sympathetic to the average Marine even if he didn’t always understand the Marine Culture.

The covered his agenda up by doing “authentic” writing from the grunts point of view. I got my ass shot off in 1968 and I will tell you, Generation Kill is not the Marine Corps. I read the book. The writer is a liberal scum bag!!
Semper Fidelis,
Tipy

Funny that many of the Marines that served with First Recon disagree with you.

I’m sure it’s convenient to label anyone who disagrees with your perspective as a “liberal scum bag”, but that doesn’t mean it’s false. If all or most of those Marines in the book said that the author lied, then I might buy the claim of “liberal bias”. Since they confirmed his account, and since they’re hardly liberal “bed-wetters”, I’m inclined to discount claims of liberal bias.

19

Hey John, we are having a reunion at Quantico in June, you weren’t with 2/3 by any chance? You’r invited, even if you weren’t. Let me clarify something. In my “opinion” (worth one plastic white spoon, maybe) Generation Kill was written with a liberal agenda. We had chicken shit. Generation Kill is liberal chicken shit.
Were you a Corpsman?
Semper Fidelis
Tipy

20

I appreciate the invite, I’ll see what I can do and yes I was a corpsman (4th, 1/5 and 2/10). I took care of my brothers and they took care of me.

Chickenshit from my understanding is the small-minded, tedious and otherwise absurd actions of leadership (like enforcing a grooming standard as you’re about to step across the line into another country). Much of the negative views of the author seemed to revolve around the “chickenshit” more than the decisions made in actual combat.

I chalked that up to a civilian not understanding what he was actually seeing.