The Science of a Plate Carrier

Tactical Gear Tactical Gear
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I was looking around a bit trying to see if I could see anything regarding this topic. Just a lot off people asking more “what company is good”. I’m interested in the science of a good setup. I understand that there is no “One size fits all missions”. A LEO’s plate carrier is going to differ than those who are in Iraq and those in Iraq may differ from those who have SHTF setups.

My carrier is for training/SHTF and so before I go and buy my pouches I wanted to ask why do I see people with only the 3 mag pouches in the front that hold 3-6 mags. I was thinking of putting 5 double HSGI taco’s on the front of my carrier to have 10 mags total (is this overkill?). Is this a wise choice as far as ergonomics and use? In my mind in a SHTF scenario I want as many mags in arms length possible. I’m new to setting a up a plate carrier here so help educate me on what would be wise. Again, I know that everyone will have a different load out for different scenarios so as stated before, this is for training/SHTF. I’m looking for good ideas that I may be missing.

Teach me.

What I have in my mind.
Eagle Plate carrier w C-bunn (Already own)
5 double taco’s in the front (Thinking about it)
4 pistol mags above the tacos (Thinking about it)
1 Med size utility pouch one side (Already own)
1 Med kit pouch on the other side (Shopping)
Hydration system on the back (Already own)

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Prior thread:

https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?85112-Proper-Wear-of-Armor-(with-anatomical-diagrams)

http://sixty-six.org/x_drive/proper_wear_of_armor.pdf

You’re protecting this:

Old-school armor like this (an AIRSAVE body armor vest with front-and-back ESAPI plates) gives you more coverage for pistol-caliber ammo as opposed to weight, maneuverability, and being able to withstand heat and humidity. You can add side-SAPI as well for more protection but more weight.:

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10 mags…

If you find yourself in a SHTF situation where you need to fight your way out with 10 mags, you suck at fighting.

I’d say run it as slick as possible in the front so you can still fight from the prone, and keep your sides as slick as possible so they don’t interfere with your arms reaching for shit. If I can feel a pouch when I stand up and drop my arms to my side, it’s in the way and I’ll either streamline my kit more by dropping excess crap, or move the pouch.

I’d personally invest in a good assault pack if I were planning to carry that much ammo and expect to be able to maneuver/fight. You can always top a mag pouch back off when things cool down and you catch a breath.

Also, what’s the utility pouch for? I like the small ATS horizontal pouch because it can fit a PVS-14 and that’s it. It prevents me from overpacking with useless crap.

If SHTF, you’re not going to want to be carrying a pack over a camelbak on your PC, it sucks.

Personally, I’d run that Eagle PC with 3xM4 mags up front, a med kit somewhere I can reach with either hand, a couple of tourniquets where I can reach with either hand, and then carry everything else in a pack on my back.

I’d also try to avoid a gunfight if I could if SHTF.

ETA: Basicload on LF makes an excellent point about reloading pistols. He believes a pistol is to fight your way back to a rifle and he doesn’t carry extra mags for it on his first line. It’s a tertiary weapon that is only going to be used for a very specific role, then you’ll get your rifle back up and, if needed, top the pistol off and drive on. I’d carry a few extra pistol mags, but not on my first line. It’s something that I would hopefully never even have to use, and if I do, I have 20 rounds to service the immediate threat. (just my opinion)

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I also recommend going for a run or a 3-4 mile hike with your fighting equipment after setting it up. Putting it on for a few minutes and looking in the mirror will not give you the feedback you need.

Go shoot with it on and train with it for a long time. You’ll notice yourself stripping more and more off of your kit as time goes on because you’ll realize what you really need for your intended role.

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Thanks Sinister. Sorry, I guess the way I worded my post is misleading. I apologize. I understand THAT science of the plate carrier. I guess what I was getting at was, What is the science of where to put pouches on the plate carrier.

I was thinking of putting the mags on my person to save space in my bailout bag for other items. Utility pouch would carry a utility leatherman multi tool, 550 paracord, compass, and some other things that may come to mind. I expect the use of this pouch to evolve as I continue to learn more about what are going to be needed in the field.

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I planned on doing this. Good suggestion thanks.

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Admin pouch on the chest will handle the nav stuff and leatherman and keep your sides slick so as not to obstruct your draw, and 550 can be stowed in a pack. Won’t need that urgently unless you just suddenly realize you need to make a shelter at that exact second in time.

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I can’t believe I didn’t ask what type of SHTF situation you’re planning for. For me, forget bugging out in a PC. After living in body armor for a few years, I’d rather maneuver with a simple chest rig and an assault pack. Walking and running around all day in plates flat out sucks and is a larger physical toll than it needs to be and in a survival situation, **** that.

Civil unrest where I won’t be moving long distance, sure. Red Dawn, absolutely. Beating feet into the woods…ditching the plates.

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Good point on the Admin pouch. I don’t need four pistol mag pouches up top there so I can remove two of them and install that on there.

My SHTF scenario is more Civil unrest/ Red Dawn kind of a thing. Yea, hoofing it in the woods I would be ditching the plates as well!

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Here is the skinny. You generally want your mags up front and/or off to your weak side to aid in reloads. You want to keep all other pouches out of your arms range of motion but still be able to reach what you need with either arm. Slim and light is key while still carrying the essentials. Not only is pouch placement key, you want to make sure you are wearing the correct size carrier (if it isn’t a one size). You want it adjusted correctly to position your plates where they are covering your vital organs (see above). Other than that it is pretty much user preference. Types of pouches, companies, color, etc…

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All good info especially the advice about hiking, running, and otherwise training in your gear.

One more consideration that I didn’t see mentioned in this thread. Vehicles. Will you be driving/seated in a vehicle a long distance wearing this equipment? That alone will entirely alter your priorities. For example: a pistol can be nearly inaccessible in a crowded vehicle by a person wearing gear when holstered on the thigh/hip. Likewise, I always preferred a high thigh weak side leg rig for ammo when on long patrols in open areas. It kept my front slick for being proned out, and seemed to carry the weight a little more comfortably. I only put four mags in it though, anything else can go in the pack. Also, I had to modify something I had to make it work where I wanted it to; high up on the thigh so it didn’t swing around when running.

With regards to your opening question, the SCIENCE of a PC isn’t necessarily openly stated somewhere because it is always changing. No one commits to one setup for life. As your operational needs(more ammo, less ammo), responsibilities (e.g. comm/more or less medical gear), and modes of travel change, so will your equipment and the way you wear it. Some, all, or none of those may apply to what you have in mind. Train, experiment, buy quality gear that can withstand employment in various uses, and you will eventually figure out what works best for you. If you’re savvy with a needle and thread you may even modify some things to work for you. Nothing but experimentation and evaluation. Good luck.

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All that would fall more into the science of gear in general, not really a plate carrier. As far as plate carriers go in a vehicle, unless you are kitted up in a humvee/other military vehicle or a patrol vehicle with a roll bar and cage, chances are you will have the ability to slide your seat back to accommodate. Other wise you might be better off running a basic carrier with a chest rig you can remove or a detachable rig via buckles. Also depends on your stature/physical attributes. It is all mett-tc dependent. Some people have different kits for different scenarios. I suggest reading through the 2nd line/plate carrier thread to give you more of an idea what options are available.

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Wait… we’re still in Iraq?

There’s been a lot of good advice already given, but I’ll try to add to it.

As others have stated, unless you’re in Stalingrad or fighting off Chinese human waves in Korea 10 mags is way overkill. Keep things simple and lightweight as possible. I’m sold on plates and would only ditch them if rucking up the mountains- if you get shot in the vitals and society has taken a break from law you’re going to have a hard time finding someone to patch you up in a timely manner. That being said, why 2 IFAKs? Just get one and more importantly LEARN HOW TO USE IT.

If you’re moving from point to point, 3 spare mags is more than enough to return fire and break contact. If you’re fighting from a defensive static position, then you can reload from your assault pack / bandoleer. Also I’d consider a dump pouch on your weak side so you have a place to quickly drop partial mags until you have time to reorganize your ammo.

You didn’t mention plates, what kind do you have or are planning to get? A PC with no plates is pointless. I’d get something similar to SAPI’s- multicurve (for comfort) and ceramic (to effectively stop rifle caliber rounds and save weight).

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Thanks for the advice man. I have a dump pouch on the belt. I am planning on getting plates, but doing things one at a time. I am still in the homework stages of plates right now. I don’t have two IFAKs, I only have one. Don’t need two.

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Sorry I misread your first post, you mention a med kit and med size utility pouch and I read it as 2 IFAKs…

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No worries!

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I second the idea of leaving the front slick. Three mags in a kangaroo insert pouch up front works well for me. The more gear you start adding to the front the more uncomfortable the prone position is going to be. An IFAK is a must. An admin pouch is good to go, but as other have stated, one typically has a tendency to go full retard with the additional gear. I’ve got a pouch that holds a multi tool, a small bottle of weapons lube/ ap brush and boresnake, pen/write in rain, small red lens headlamp and thats about it. A good assault pack is worth the money too for any additional/sustainment items you may want to carry and I would recommend that over trying to attach additional gear. My philosophy is to keep the pc as light and streamline as possible, thus allowing mobility and maintaining the appropriate gear to facilitate mission accomplishment. Its nice to walk around like the Juggernaut, but if you can’t move, you can’t fight.

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i think the ‘science of a plate carrier’ for a civvie is actually determining what ‘SHTF’ actually means and what you’re going to be doing during that situation. if you figure out what you’re going to be doing, then configuring a plate carrier becomes easier as you know what you want to carry and can see whether you can run/drive/shoot etc with it.

i’ll be honest - as a civvie, i can’t really envision what kind of SHTF situation i’d be in wearing a plate carrier, especially with my wife and child being my primary concern. what’s my 6-yr old going to wear? what about my wife? who’s going to be shooting at me/us? too many variables and scenarios to cover them all.

so, i configure my PC for the range, which is about the only place i wear one, and mostly to experiment with gear i design to ensure it works. what i’ve learned - three single mags on the front, two on the belt in singles enables me to shoot from just about any position comfortably, can be somewhat concealed with a baggy jacket over it (from afar), and sit in a car and drive. anything else can go in a small pack or man purse. stuff attached to the rear of a plate carrier can’t be accessed easily by yourself. that about sums it up for me.

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Rarely will you unexpectedly “jock up” in full gear, especially as a civilian. If you do, chances are you’ll be making that decision to prepare for what you assume to be an upcoming gunfight. On the SHTF scale ranging from “bad day” to “full retard”, there’s about a million scenarios that fall in between the two points. For those guys who have all the gear, and are not sure what to do with it next, I recommend;

Plate Carrier - Something basic with at lest some MOLLE throughout. Even if you’re keeping it slick, the loops can be used for all kinds of things in prolonged use, should the need arise. Having an attachable Raid Pack (even better are the zippered models, ala Tyr Tactical) to carry water, ammo, etc isn’t a bad option. You might not always need a big ol’ Kelty of shit if you’re snooping around a possible bivvy area.

Battle Belt/1st Line Belt - This is your money maker, and what you should focus on first. A good belt can keep you in the fight for hours if that’s the only thing you grab, and can be a fast way to bring your desired items when checking your house to see what’s got the dog spooked. You’ll want to use mostly the 2 o’clock to 10 o’clock real estate, keeping the front slick for prone. If you need to change that, nothing says the buckle NEEDS to be facing 12 o’clock *. A spare pistol mag, two spare rifle mags, flashlight, chem lights, dump pouch, IFAK, pistol holster, butt pack (store NVGs, hat, whatever) and a nalgene pouch are my basics. I’d recommend some suspenders from Home Depot to take the weight off your hips (you don’t want the sub belt to be too tight) and to allow you to unbuckle the belt if needed to crouch for a while without risking leaving it behind.

  • While I’m trying to tie Paramedic with TCCC courses, I still find a larger FAK may make me more of an asset than my gunsmanship. I keep a 6-loop trauma kit that covers my 11-1 on the belt so it’s right in front of me, where I can see/reach it if I open it up.

Chest Rig/s - You may have more than one…it’s not against the rules. And if it is, cheat. It’s been mentioned that a rig for defending your firm location would be different from one for moving around expecting little contact, or hoping to break contact and evade. I like the idea of a patrol rig, 3-4 mags plus extra supplies, kept tight to the slick front of the plate carrier. With one in your weapon, two on your belt, and this…you’re ready to cover movement out of more than one fight in an egress mindset. Then you could have a heavier rig, 8-10 mags, for your own defensive needs. This is also something that could be used to supplement others who have been at a fight longer than you, or who are returning from a fight and need to re-ass while simultaneously joining you for a defensive FPF.

Of course your gear is only as effective as you are. Your physical conditioning, skills, defensive/offensive posture, prior planning, and logistics, will all be more of a decider than your gear layout. You might not get shot in your first fifty contacts, but you’ll die without water long before then. You won’t die in the fight you don’t get in. And five men with two mags are drastically more capable than one man with ten. Carry water, batteries, etc, and ALWAYS have a plan or desired outcome.

Hope some of that helps.

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Thanks a lot guys. This is some great information! I’m not new to shooting, but that doesn’t mean that I know everything either. This is exactly the stuff I was looking for.