Teach Me About Pistol Red Dots

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

I think I want a pistol red dot, probably on a glock 19. I already have a 19, along with 17 and others and 19 seems to be a good compromise.
Researching this on the internet has my head spinning.

It seems I can get my slide milled, takes a month, around $165 and shipping. Or I can buy a slide, $200 and shipping with no iron sights so I’d have to add those and maybe also an adapter plate?

Or I can just sell something and buy a glock mos for around $620. Do I still need an adapter plate?

And then there are the multiple sights to choose from. RMR, see a lot about holosun. I thought holosun was a cheap china company but I saw where Kyle DeFoor uses a solar powered one on his go to carbine. Which sight would you all recommend?

2

One more option is available, Leupold Delta Micro. It is a great sight, it sits on my 2 carry Glocks. It also forces you to use good techniques and it will improve your shooting.

I have a Holosun 509T, it is great and I was very anti Holosun due to being made in China. But it is a great product.

I was one of the first to mount a red dot on a handgun way back in early spring of 2001, so I have been doing this a long time. Pistols of mine that can’t use the Leupold Delta Micro will wear the 509T from Holosun. This of course doesn’t count the pistols that currently wear a RMR.

3

Be prepared for loads of frustration. Mounting, zero, batteries, etc. The reliability on these things has a long way to go. When it gets there, it will be nice.

In a perfect world, they’d have pic rails on the rear of the slide, and they sights would have the reliability of the aimpoint rifle RDS.

4

Ease of installation makes that interesting. Small window kind of bothers me. Watching several videos/reviews on it now.

5

Seems about in line from a post circa 2015 or so…

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I don’t know about that. But I do know the RDS has a lot of room for reliability improvement. I’m all for the RDS on pistols. I just want them at the level of reliability that you’d get with an H1 on a carbine for example.

I never see buddies standing on the firing line tryna figger out why their rifle dot aint working… or why it’s not zeroed, etc. My only rifle RDS failure was due to that stupid dip finish on the upper that let the mount break loose.

7

I have had a Primary arms red dot on an AK for years always works and holds zero.

Put a HS507K X2 on the P365 XL two range trips ago. It’s been GTG.

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I don’t understand what’s hard about mounting them or zeroing them? And reliability will never be aimpoint on a rifle level because of the g forces exerted on a slide mounted dot. Unreal expectations will lead to perceived problems. The market is flooded with cheap dots to meet the demand. You get cheap results with cheap products.

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Pretty much.

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Sell your current Glock inventory and buy another MOS Glock, dont **** with Milling unless the mfg doesn’t offer optics ready guns. Glock makes them obviously so take advantage of that. RDS on handguns has been game changer. Only RDS I have had issues with are the Sig handgun RDS. My RMR, SRO and Holosun optics have been very reliable. Sig is hit and miss.

PB

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I’ve been using RDS on handgun long before they became a thing and this is what I’ve learned;

Don’t think a RDS is a fix-all for crappy shooting. It isn’t. They still require a solid draw-to-grip-to shooting stance, good trigger control. and decent recoil management (probably better recoil management than “standard” sights).

There is a transition period when changing-over to a RDS and a transition period to revert back to standard sights if are so inclined. It’s all about conditioning yourself and once you are conditioned to use the RDS, reverting back isn’t as easy as removing it, which leads to…

Once you decide to go/stay with a RDS on a serious-use handgun, it is a smart move to assure ALL of your serious use handguns have RDS on them.

It isn’t as hard to condition yourself to use a RDS handgun, but it isn’t easy. Lots, and lots, and lots empty-gun presentations from the holster will build your engagement speed quickly, then you’ll need some dedicated range-time to work-out the live-fire quirks. The biggest one being that your recoil control needs to return the RDS handgun almost right back to the exact spot it was fired from. If it doesn’t, you’ll find yourself hunting for the dot for longer than you would normally had for the front sight. There are many more visual cues available to get you back on your front sight after recoil than there are to get you back on the dot after recoil.

Once you do get your recoil management working for you, you’ll likely discover three benefits from a RDS handgun 1) You will be more accurate with the RDS than standard sights in the same time frame, 2) You will be as accurate with a RDS in LESS time than you are with standard sights, 3) Same sight picture all the time regardless of lighting conditions.

That has been my personal experience with USING RDS on handguns. As always, YMMV.

As far as which RDS to use…

From what I’ve seen, NO first generation sights work on handguns for a extended period. The first gen RMR was really about the only first-gen that held-up riding the slide. All the others would just get beat-up - some beat to pieces - when slide-mounted. Even the first-gen RMR had it’s problems, not the least of which was the batteries would eventually begin to disconnect during use and the dot would become intermittent while shooting. There is a fix if you’re stuck with one, however.

The Type 2 RMRs seem to have fixed all the issues with the first-gen and survive on a slide just fine. The DeltaPoint is a definite no-go for slide mounting, it’s too wide and gets the crap beat out of it, then the lens falls out. The DeltaPoint Pro is looking to be solid, but be sure to use the metal frame that comes with it. The Holosun’s also seem to do well, but some have demonstrated the same battery issue as the first-gen RMRs. Holosuns are also heavier than the RMR, not much, but at the forces the slide functions at every gram can matter so don’t go cheap on screw quality, fit, or loctite. Docter sights have done well, too. They aren’t common in the US but I’ve seen more than a few on handguns in Europe and no one was complaining.

Personally, I’ve only used RMRs and Docter on serious-use handguns and other than the first-gen RMR battery issue I’ve had no problems. I wouldn’t hesitate to use a DeltaPoint Pro - especially with the protective hoop - and I’d be ok with Holosun as long as I was certain good screws were used and it was installed properly.

Another consideration is batteries. They live in the same environment as the sight and they have to be tough, too. Panasonic and Sony branded batteries do well. Duracells are usable but will need to be changed more often. I’ve not seen any other battery brand - especially generics - do well with a RDS on a slide for an extended period.

Hope this helps…

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I’ve seen some come loose. The fasteners aren’t really beefy enough in some cases to hold up to the punishment of the slide reciprocation. Some of the aftermarket slide mods aren’t perfect which leads to the mounting issues in some cases.

I don’t know how picking up a weapon and spending time tryna figger out where my dot is is a “perceived problem”. I’d call it a pretty real problem. I get that it’s not rifle reliable yet. But until that time, it won’t be on a gun that I count on.

Edit to add: I’d disagree that they won’t some day be as reliable as the rifle. I think they’ll figure it out, and even at a higher cost, people will pay for the reliability. I know I would buy a reliable pistol dot at twice what they bring now.

The market is flooded with cheap dots to meet the demand. You get cheap results with cheap products.

I read that aimpoint had come out with one that stood up to 40k rounds of 40 s&w. (aimpoint’s claim). I asked around and heard it still had issues… no first hand experience with it. But their claim interested me. 40k on a .40 would be getting there.

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I can see why with your homey saying to go Glock MOS…
That does explain some possible perspective issues.

14

Can’t find the dot as in can’t acquire it in the window or it’s no longer on the gun?

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As far as RDS shearing screws, my understanding is that is most likely due to cut in slide being larger than actual RDS base, front to back, so screws take the forces generated. Many machine shops want customers to send RDS w slide for a tight fit.
As far as finding the dot quickly when presenting pistol towards target, I recommend a training course. 2 days w Scott Jedlinski or a similar instructor will ingrain proper techniques specific to RDS equipped pistols. Really no different than taking a carbine course, as many of us have done at some point, and often recommend to folks just getting into the weapon this site is named after.
WRT RDS reliability, they are not infallible, and Aaron @ Sage Dynamics tells you which are “duty grade”.
But even if it craps out, I still have my tall irons visible low in the window, as backup. Side loading battery avoids need to rezero and solar panel allows it to run w dead or no battery.
Used to be in the camp that they were for competition only, where they first appeared (just like carbine mounted ones), but the sights evolved and are ready for prime time.
There is a learning curve but the benefits as described in previous posts are real.

Mark

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Small window is not an issue, other than training issue. you dont really look through the glass, the dot sort of floats in front of your eyes.

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I ended up milling my gen 4 g19 slide at DP Custom Works. I would definitely recommend them. The work is good, the price is more than fair, and their turnaround time was probably the best in the business, based on what I was being told about the other options out there. The main reason I chose to modify what I already had was I have quite a few rounds on it and know it’s good to go, and didn’t want to start over with an unknown new gun.

I went with the Trijicon RMR type 2 (3 MOA). I overwhelmingly prefer Aimpoint as a company, but I heard there were issues with the gen 1 Acro so I figured maybe best to wait a little while and make sure the second gen was fully baked before jumping in on that. That was almost a year ago though since I researched them, so there might be consensus on that now. Were I to buy one today, I might end up going in a different direction. The RMR is tried and true, though, and I’m generally happy with it. Also very happy with the 3 MOA dot. I think as a first pistol RDS the 3 MOA is a great place to start. The learning curve probably would have been harsher with the 1 MOA. The 3 MOA is also fine enough for easy hits out to 50 yards, which is pretty generous with a G19. Kind of hard to argue you need something finer than that.

Were I to start over with a new gun, I might opt for one of the new Glock single stack 9mm and the RMRcc. When my G19 comes to the end of its service life that’s probably the direction I will go in.

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I forgot to mention the FF3 I use on a S&W 41. Excellent

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Pull out the pistol and get to hitting the buttons to get the dot to turn on, etc. Just happened the last time our buddy came out. Pulls out his pistol and the perennial disappointment of seeing a blank optic.

I’d predict that the pistol RDS cycle will mirror the Rifle to some extent. They’ll eventually get to the “comp m4” stage of development… and be like 800-900 bucks. Then it will get even better like the H2. THEN… it’ll get copied and there’ll be 400 dollar “romeo 5s” that anyone can add with pretty good reliability.

3-5 years from now, we’ll look back to these days as dark ages. It’ll seem so obvious then… like gas ports or anything else… people will demand excellence and it will come.

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Do your buddies use the Chinese products, I figure when they puke its karma for supporting a shithole country.
All the guys I shoot with use Trijicon and rarely does anyone have issues.

I know whiney people cry about the 3 minutes it takes to change the battery once a year, but to support an American company, I’ll waste a half hour per year (multiple sights).
I’ve never been more than an inch off at 20yds after battery replacement (I use a 20yd zero), and my edc has a laser as well so even a monkey can rezero it in the driveway using the garage door and twenty paces, 5 minutes after changing the battery.

I use my rds as a charging handle and it’s never (in the 7 years I’ve used rds) lost zero.
I have physical reasons for doing that so I’m not sure if most people abuse their rds like I do or not.