Stainless Steel for a Duty Weapon?

Would you use a Stainless Steel barrel on a Duty Rifle?

If you were going to assemble an AR as a duty weapon for law enforcement, military, contractor, etc, would you install a Stainless Steel barrel on it, or are they just for competition(3-Gun)?

Granted, precision weapons have had stainless steal barrels on duty weapons, MK 12 (Douglas Barrel) and MK 11/M110:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_Mark_12_Mod_X_Special_Purpose_Rifle

If you look at BCM & Larue they speak quite highly of their stainless steel builds.

Larue:http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-stealth-sniper-system-lt011

BCM: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS410-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid16%20ss410.htm

Larue claims the “LW-50 lacks sulphur, which in high quantity, created short throat-life in other Stainless Steels. LW-50 can also be heat-treated to a point that makes it near-optimal in all forms of rifle barrels. LW-50 has been proven for over 15 years, in military and civilian uses ranging from sniper, tactical, target, and other high-performance applications where long life and accuracy are critical.”

While BCM claims “410 stainless is a harder and more corrosion resistant than the conventional 416 stainless found in most barrels”

So if they are both so resistant to barrel wear(the main concern I have heard not to use them), would you?

4150 handles heat better. Maybe no biggie for patrol rifle… Not optimal for military extended fire fights.

Stainless can’t be parkerized, which is required by the TDP. Stainless also rusts, something that is very hard to achieve with a chrome lined barrel. Stainless is excellent for precision rifles where extreme accuracy is one of the primary goals, but it isn’t the best choice for the hoards of the great unwashed.

Any small benefit I might gain in accuracy (if any at all) from the usage of a stainless steel barrel for a LEO Patrol Rifle would not be worth it to me.

I prefer having a non-shinny gun for a duty weapon. If I had a stainless barrel, I’d have to have it coated or at the least, paint it. But this still leaves the bore to worry about.

I’ve seen stainless handguns rust. Yes it takes a lot of abuse and neglect, but many LEO’s aren’t “gun people”. You get rained on (a lot). You can trip and fall, dropping stuff. I had an officer accompany a K-9 on a track for an armed individual last year. About a foot of snow on the ground. The officer slipped in mud concealed by snow on a hill and took a spill. The AR was so snow covered you couldn’t see a single black part on the gun. Shit happens…

A non-stainless barrel such as found on a Colt 6920 has sufficient accuracy for the task of a LEO Patrol Rifle/duty weapon.

I wouldn’t change it if it’s what I already had, but I personally would stick to a CL barrel for patrol use. The accuracy gain of a stainless barrel may be somewhat noticeable from the bench, but I doubt you’d see as much of a difference on the street unless you were firing at extended ranges from a supported position.

Texas DPS have some LaRue OBR’s for their precision rifles, but it’s filling a different role than a fighting rifle.

My BCM 14.5" is one of the most accurate non-stainless barrels I’ve owned. Another great choice would be a Centurion CHF 14.5" or 16" barrel. It’s a slightly thinner profile than a standard barrel but also one of the most accurate CL’d barrels I’ve personally handled.

IDK don’t you think it’d be perfectly fine for dumping all your mags?

I prefer having a non-shinny gun for a duty weapon. If I had a stainless barrel, I’d have to have it coated or at the least, paint it. But this still leaves the bore to worry about.

Bead blasted stainless barrels aren’t shiny at all. A matte grey color.

You’d have more shiny shit on your uniform.

Stainless barrels do resist corrosion. An oiled patch down the bore followed by a dry one is more than enough. You would be worse off to leave tons of fouling in the barrel than worry about the effect the enviroment would have on it. Really, the enviroment for a LE duty weapon is the interior of a climate controlled car.

I wouldn’t get too wrapped up in the specifics of what stainless material is being used. I’ve actually read a lot about them when buying a barrel. The big ones are 410, 416, 416R and LW50. The subtle differences between them is less than what the manufacturer does to complete the end product.

I’ve seen stainless handguns rust. Yes it takes a lot of abuse and neglect, but many LEO’s aren’t “gun people”. You get rained on (a lot). You can trip and fall, dropping stuff. I had an officer accompany a K-9 on a track for an armed individual last year. About a foot of snow on the ground. The officer slipped in mud concealed by snow on a hill and took a spill. The AR was so snow covered you couldn’t see a single black part on the gun. Shit happens…

If someone knew enough to ask about stainless barrels for duty use, I would surmise they are gun people and are capable of doing the required maintenance. If I was going to buy a lot of AR15s to issue out, it would probably be an out of the box Colt with a CL barrel.

If your rifle is serving dual use, something you’d use in competition and for work, I’d think you be just fine with a stainless barrel. If you want to treat it like most people treat things that are issued to them, CL is probably better.

I ran my LT Stealth (16/11) as a patrol rifle for a time, as well in training. I don’t anymore because it’s heavier than I like and I prefer it in a more dedicated precision semi-auto setup. It’s proven reliable and GTG, just more than I need for patrol work.

Some people with experience seem to really like stainless barrels in a combat zone… https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=10551

When is “stainless” more prone to rust?

Especially the 4150 barrel grade over the 4140.
The 4150 has 0.5 percent more carbon in it making it stronger and more rust resistant.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2011/12/29/guide-to-gun-metal/

I only ask because that “stainless also rusts” goes against what I’ve learned about metal compounds.

*I’m NOT law enforcement but I’d second, against a shiny duty weapon.

Certain types of stainless are less resistant to rust than others. Heat can cause stainless to degrade too so a gun barrel is no friendly environment. I’m assuming the aforementioned claim was made when applied just to the bore itself because of the chromium plating itself is a barrier to oxidation. As for the parkerizing outside…that’ll rust if neglected.

Sure, of course they’re a good option, especially so for guys that know what they’re doing and on specialized teams.

I wouldn’t hesitate to carry one, I think the deciding factor thugh would be my job. Will I be out on foot a majority of the time or will I be in a vehicle. Will my average engagement be 100 meters of 400 meters, etc.

Personally, I’m thinking about picking up a 16" lightweight Noveske stainless barrel. I’d really like a stainless barrel in there N4 profile, but it appears those are only CHF barrels.

With many of the guys I’ve trained with and have seen shoot, I don’t think stainless would bring anything to the table. Only a small percentage would see a difference. For those that are in that group, it’ll all come down to the job itself and what works best.

Edit - My stainless Ed Brown 1911 showed rust every couple days of carry, while my coated carbon steel Nighthawks didn’t. If I buy a stainless barrel, I’d rather have one that’s IonBonded.

Yes… it would… the point is that most SS barrels are pretty beefy profile… not like the govt profile that the M4 and M16 are.

Roger. Guess I’m used to looking at Larue, Noveske and such that seem to use such nice profiles.

Sure would, and do. I’m somewhat of an “accuracy nut,” and give minor advantages in precision between platforms a lot more consideration than I think most people do. A 0.5 MOA difference in accuracy can make or break my relationship with a rifle.

Because of this, and also because of the fact that my particular profession requires very precise shooting sticks, I have moved almost exclusively to SS barrels for both work and personal rifles.

For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t worry too much about the durability of a Stainless barrel for the vast majority of applications. Here’s how I’ll qualify that statement:

I’ve personally put somewhere around 12K rounds of MK262 through an issued MK12 Mod 1 both in training and overseas in the last few years. All rounds were shot suppressed and some were F/A as it was on an M16A1 lower. F/A fire is not really in the job description for a MK12 but given the capability I chose to become intimately familiar with operating the rifle in this way. The firing schedule over the course of those 12k rounds was varied. Sometimes I would only need to shoot 10 or 15 rounds in one engagement over the course of a few hours…on really bad days it would see 6 or 7 magazines in 10 minutes.

The barrel was new when I got it so I had a blank slate to work with, which is always a good feeling with an issued gun. Anyway, I established an accuracy baseline in the beginning and found it to be a solid 3/4 MOA gun with MK262. Fast-forward 20 months and 12 thousand rounds (I’m anal about logging round counts with my rifles). I have a ritual of going out to the range every two weeks when possible to confirm zero and make sure accuracy is where it needs to be. Even at the end of my time with that rifle it was still producing the same boringly accurate results after 12k rounds.

Corrosion wise, I had no issues. The rifle saw austere conditions, summer time humidity, rain, winter sleet and snow…but I always made sure it was oiled and clean. If you take care of a stainless barrel it will take care of you. Neglect it and it and you will have problems. Even relatively cut off from the supply chain in the Afghan mountains, myself and everybody else in the section with stainless barrels was able to keep them in A+ condition. Non-issue unless you plan on not being around a decent CLP for months at a time. That’s not real life. While important for somebody’s end of the world fantasy, not being able to get CLP on and in the barrel is not a real world consideration.

On the personally owned side of things (the following is taken from a previous post of mine but much of it applies here):

What I’ve noticed about my BCM SS410 barrel is that groups do in fact open up when the barrel gets extremely hot but POI does not shift. The groups just expand but stay centered. Even when the barrel gets to this point (extremely hot), my groups won’t open up past 1.5 MOA…better than many chrome lined barrels when cool, and far better than most chrome lined barrels when hot. In the last few months I’ve put 5K rounds through my SS410 and have noticed no degradation in accuracy. It still prints 1/2 to 3/4 MOA 10 shot groups, only opening up beyond that when really really pushed heat wise.


Now, after all that, here’s what I think people need to look at when selecting a stainless vs chrome lined barrel.

  • Are you in a position to be able to feed it exclusively match grade ammunition? There’s no point in going stainless if you’re shooting M855. The best barrel in the world won’t make inaccurate ammunition shoot straight. If you can’t afford / can’t use match ammunition for whatever reason…go chrome.

  • If the answer to above is YES, then you are either pretty well off financially or your unit or organization is in a place to provide it. In either of these cases, the monetary cost / practical difficulty of a replacement barrel will be absolutely trivial in comparison to the cost and availability of ammunition. In other words, if you can afford 10-15k rounds of match ammunition, you can afford a new barrel. If your unit / organization can get that much match ammunition, it can get you a new barrel. In either case, barrel life is a non issue.

  • Corrosion problems and sudden catastrophic failures from high volumes of fire are in my experience not relevant or warranted fears. I’m not trying to tell war stories here but I’ve asked a lot out of stainless barrels in some engagements as large and frenzied as you can imagine in the valleys and mountains of eastern Afghanistan. I don’t forsee many other stainless “duty” barrels being faced with 125 red bearded nutjobs advancing down the mountain toward them. Having been in such situations with a stainless barrel I have to question the veracity of anybody who claims that SS barrels are not durable enough for “combat.” Gotta wonder what they’re basing that off of. Rest assured that a good stainless barrel is more than durable enough for combat conditions. Deliberately doing 10 mag dumps in a row on the range for Youtube is another story. Also not real life.

So, my position is that if you can take an honest look at yourself and determine that A) you can shoot to the potential of a match type barrel and B) you can afford to feed it a high quality diet and C) You don’t mind the extra weight from the SS and beefier contour and D) you will not neglect to maintain your equipment…that you in fact SHOULD choose a stainless barrel for the edge in accuracy.

If the answer to any of these or the above questions is NO…go chrome.

Sorry for being so long winded.

Great post and that should be in the AR Bible.

I wouldn’t have any problem with stainless but for my personal uses for patrol the benefits would very likely not be worth it.

Besides I would feel bad knocking the glass out of an already smashed door with a custom precision stainless barrel. :rolleyes: It is hard on finish.

There was a guy who deployed with a boutique upper a few years back. It was a stainless bbl.

It was an ADCO or MSTN or some such… He ran the piss out of it training and in Afghanastan… He had pics of the actual upper on deployment and everything… the guy was legit.

Anyway… that thing was just fine for his application. For an across the board USGI infantry gun?? I wouldn’t think it’d be optimal to have SS bbls.

I’ll borrow and modify one of LAVs sayings…

If you treat your gun like we all treat out law mowers, a SS barrel might not be the best choice.

Stainless loses some strength in really cold temperatures. It can become brittle and have a catastrophic failure, although this is only in very light contours. Barrel maker Boots Obermeyer recommends not using stainless if you’re going to use your rifle in really cold environments for this reason.

That said, I’ve shot a stainless 300 win mag in -30 degrees without any issue but it had a heavier contour.