One of my customers is a high end 1911 smith. He and I were talking the other day about which 1911’s I should stock. I mentioned that I was interested in NightHawk and maybe WC. He made the comment to me that he could build me custom guns from the ground up (not taking a Springfield or Kimber and re-working it) and they would be in the same price line as NH or WC.
I must say that I like the idea of building custom guns from the ground up (so you know that every part is the very best).
You timing is funny, I was just IMing some folks about something like this… I have a box of 1911 parts that I am going to put together, back from when I did pistols.
As you know I have a manufacturing license and have ran a few guns under the name… currently just rifles, but I did some 1911s years back – the total cost is not that bad, depending of course on how many frames/slides you are ordering.
A couple of things to think about… liability insurance for manufacturing pistols is higher than long guns and getting them on the “approved” list in some states is kind of an expesive venture… I just did not sell to people in those states.
Let me know if you want some more info on who makes frames on a letter or variance and what the best quality out there is.
Grant, if you could sell 1911’s as good or better than my RRA, available within a reasonable time frame for a reasonable price, I’d buy one. I doubt I’d be alone in making that decision. I doubt I’d ever buy a NH or WC though.
It depends on the reputation of the 'smith. An up-and-coming smith that can turn out a quality, full house 1911, for $2,500 in a reasonable amount of time is a real gem.
…and the world shall beat a path to his door. MAP is dead nuts on Grant. I think the market is primed for this. Take a look at the waiting list of the name guys. We’ll have plasma rifles before some people see their pistols.
You can go a couple of ways. One way is to have an a la carte menu where you pick a frame, slide and components and add them up as you wish. Even high end parts are not that expensive, its the fitting (and corresponding labor) that adds up quick.
The second way is to offer levels, say three, that have certain components. By limiting the choices, the smith can produce more I would think but again it goes to the fitting. Since everyone is so into their 1911s being tight fitted tack drivers ( next time you see someone pick up a high end 1911 in a store, watch them. I guarantee the first thing they do is shake it to see if the slide rattles, which they think is bad), labor really makes the pistols climb the price ladder in a hurry.
The two guys that made my 1911 Colt Tactical are taking the second way. They are working out deals with suppliers now. They have been working at a firearms manufactuer here in CT while their new shop is being built and have learned a lot about where to best focus the labor to produce a fighting pistol. I’d rather have the barrel hard fit and the extractor properly installed than have the top of the slide serrated or the front strap checkered if I had to choose. I think the smiths that make the right choices for a fighting gun, can maintain high quality and can get them into a customer’s hand before the second coming of Christ might just do well.
Dont waste your time and or money stocking high end 1911s, they wont sell enough to be worth it. The folks who will spend $2K for a 1911, already know who they will buy from.
What the market may consume would be a mid-level (~$1500) 1911 that has enough good stuff (no mim, decent sight, trigger, GS) to satisfy even a high round count user without a lot of frills. The Colt Gunsite pistol comes to mind here. I’d do it in blasted stainless with an added cost option to get it coated in a few different colors. If it gains the rep of being reliable, reliable, reliable with no shortcut parts, it will sell plenty.
I agree. The Adco spec RRA was a perfect example of this. I would already own TWO of the Adco guns if they had left off the front strap serrations, and I would suggest leaving it off of any other guns at this price point. End users can always have the serrations added if they need/want them, but can’t ever take them off. Same thing goes for front cocking serrations if you were thinking of adding those.
Akoni’s suggestion of making them in stainless allows end-users to add the serrations they want without having to refinish.
I hear ya Steve. I think how these will differ is that they will be full custom (not semi-production) and the consumer won’t have to wait. I know a good many people would love to buy a full custom weapon for around $2,000-$2,500 and didn’t have to wait on it (as shown in this thread).
You can debate this stuff till your blue in the face, but I would bet below $700 1911’s out sell the high-end models 100 to 1. Guys buy them, shoot them twice a year for two hundred rounds total and throw them back in the safe. Like Bigbore stated 1911 buyers in this price range usually know what they want before they ever contact you.
It’s also a waste of time debating options like front strap checkering, front cocking serrations, etc. 1911 options are a very personal thing. Stating any production/semi-custom/full custom 1911 “Does Not Need Them” is a joke because no matter how much you believe it there are plenty of guys standing right next to you on the line who demand them on a serious use handgun.
It’s the equivalent to talking to a wall. Stating your preferences is fine, but making them out to be anything more is a waste of bandwidth.