Civilian here. I’ve been looking for a way to carry a full-size pistol, 2-4 AR magazines, 2-4 pistol magazines, IFAK, a fixed-blade knife, flashlight, and multitool - in other words, the kind of gear that may be handy when faced with a Katrina-type situation. I want something that is “grab and go”, and will allow me to remain mobile. I have looked at a number of “Active Shooter” bags (ASB), and think this may be the solution to my needs. However, I’m still unsure as to how in the world you can utilize both an ASB and a rifle sling. If the purpose of an ASB is to have everything handy during a “fight”, then it would stand to reason you would be able to utilize a sling at the same time. Do any of you have any experience with running both an ASB and a rifle sling? What kind of sling system did you use? How terrible was the interference between the shoulder strap of the ASB and the sling? Am I better off with a simple chest rig and the sling setup of my choice? Any advice y’all can give would be greatly appreciated.
LE here. Sling the ASB over one shoulder (over the head
/support arm through the sling) and run the rifle sling just around your neck. When you’re actively deploying a rifle slinging it this way allows you to transition from strong to support side without fighting the sling.
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What he said! However, if you’re already carryingan M-4 and a pistol openly I don’t know why you wouldn’t go with a chest rig. If it’s a bug out type situation you’re probably going to have some sort of pack or at least camelback on as well and all those straps and slings are a PITA. figure out exactly what you’re trying accomplish and the gear solution will get a lot easier. Remember the mision drives the gear train.
Good advice on both counts. My gravitating toward an ASB probably stems from not wanting to look, well, silly. The only tactical gear I’ve ever owned was a cheap UTG cross-draw vest that I got rid of as soon as I realized how ridiculous, cumbersome, and useless that thing was. But in the event of a Katrina/Rodney King Riots situation, maybe I need to stop worrying about looking silly and focus on what works.
Can you recommend a chest rig that would give me the capability to carry the items stated above? For the situation I imagine (securing business during civil unrest/natural disaster), I don’t really see a need for a hydration pack or BOB, but maybe a chest rig would be a good way to go. I’ve seen some really affordable options (Condor Recon chest rig - dubious quality? Stacked magazine pouches look like a horrible idea - are they?) and some high-end ones (Viking Tactics VTAC chest rig - two radio pouches? Why?), but have no idea where to even begin.
Then again, in a situation like that, is your concern getting away, or standing and fighting? In such a scenario, absent an urgent need to stay and fight, I’d opt for a more “grey” approach that would allow me to slip away unnoticed as a preference, with the ability to fight if needed.
While a shoulder bag or a backpack may not be the most efficient way to fight, it’s a lot less conspicuous than standing out in a chest rig with a long gun. This all depends on whether or not you’re intent or committed to standing your ground wherever you are, or if being “made” as a geared up guy is a concern by that point.
Chameleox makes a very good point. I personally will take the “grey man” approach any chance I get.
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Thanks to all for the advice. My main concern is to be able to stand and fight if I choose to. But I appreciate the appeal of being able to remain inconspicuous to/from a location, while retaining the ability to stand and fight. I feel much more comfortable with an ASB, seeing as how it’s nothing more than a purpose-built shoulder bag.
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A small, simple rig (even the really minimalist Eagle Patrol Bandoleer) can meet the majority of your requirements (find a compact FAK that fits in a rifle pouch, use the other rifle pouch for a pair of mags if need be).
If your primary goal is to be mobile, minimally obvious then just get a decent 2-pt sling and just find a way of carrying it that makes sense (or more likely have that sling live on the rifle so it’s a nonissue). A VCAS/VTAC/Husky or similar fits the bill fine, work with that.
If you really want grey man, the cheap version is to just use a cheap one-color Jansport and use that to fit a bunch of stuff, and then have an absolutely minimal chest rig or belt rig setup - mostly don’t underestimate how much you can do with just the magazines loaded up in weapon systems already
Maybe one of those 5.11 tactical vests might do the trick? Looks like a fishing vest.
I currently use a 2 point sling, but was curious if a 1 point sling might minimize any interference between the shoulder strap of an ASB. It looks like Eagle Patrol Bandoleer is a great option for a minimalist ASB, but if I’m going to sling something over my shoulder I’d probably go with something that would allow me the ability to carry a few more items (like the US Peacekeeper Rapid Deployment Pack). I went ahead and ordered the aforementioned bag and am going to give it a shot.
Would an instructor belt be able to bear most of the loadout described above? Or would I need to look at a MOLLE battle belt? I figure I can keep an IFAK in a cargo pants pocket. Which means I’d have to buy a pair of cargo pants.
Oh God, that actually looks like a great solution, but for a guy who won’t even wear cargo pants I can’t even imagine buying something that looks like a fishing vest.
I’m not sure a slung up AR + big bag of gear is going to be inconspicuous. If you are planning for the option to stand and fight get a plate carrier with plates. They are quick to get on/off. Plus having an IFAK in a pocket is probably not a smooth choice. Assuming you are planning for some sort of fire fight you might want people who find you to easily see and get to the med kit to help you.
And there’s another question I’m trying to figure out an answer to - how to transport an AR-15 on foot inconspicuously. I’m sure there’s a backpack solution out there. For now I’m assuming being able to transport myself to/from home and business via car. Maybe it’s a bad assumption, but it’s the one I’m working with at this time.
Good point on making a first-aid kit a conspicuous item. Thanks for good advice. I’m not planning for a firefight, but I am planning on being ready in the extremely unlikely event that a potential looter or other opportunistic criminal may be armed and willing to fire on someone who’s better armed than them, and manages to wound me. Again, highly unlikely, but better to have and not need than need and not have. I guess you could say the same about a plate carrier and plates…
Unless you have a fishing pole, or have a DSLR hanging around your neck the ‘sneaky’ vests are still just super obvious ‘hey, that guy has a firearm and thinks nobody knows’ items. Depending on silhouette, tennis racket bags do well at carrying carbines, having an SBR with some creatively chosen parts you can fit that in an ordinary school backpack, but really by the point where you have a rifle slung being inconspicuous is nearly implausible - instead have your entire kit small, light, and well thought out so that when you need to go overt, it’s with you. After trying numerous times to figure out an ideal kit, I gave up and realized the backpack I go MTB riding with is already a better candidate - sure it has a couple extraneous things for a gunfight (tubes, some less useful multitools, shock/tire pump), but it’s a bag I already have water, FAK, packable rain jacket, tape, zip ties, a towel, and some food in.
How about something super low-pro like the BCM03/Haley Strategic D3 (without plates)/BFG style harness? I have a BCM03 and fully loaded it rolls up pretty small for stowage and once it’s on, you can conceal it pretty well under a windbreaker zipped up. However, like others have said, if you’re going to be running around with a rifle hanging off your neck, you’ve pretty much negated the element of surprise/incognito. I haven’t run one all put together yet, but I’d imagine the BFG Rackminus with Ten-Speed pouches is about as low-pro as you can get. Replacing the mags in the pouches can be a bit difficult one handed, however.
I’m also tracking on your ASB idea, but in my attempts at deploying one, they become cumbersome quite quickly unless you have something that either threads through a belt or has a waist strap to make it stay put. Moving and trying to get a fresh mag out of a zipper pouch is a bit tricky if the bag is moving around to boot. Any type of unconventional shooting position gets pretty tricky, too; but that’s just a matter of training like anything else. Just my .02
Truth.
Lots of good stuff in this recent thread…
https://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?149689-Low-profile-M4-AR-mag-quot-man-purse-quot
Thanks for the link; that’s a great thread.
The US Peacekeeper bag does an “ok” job of staying put if I use the belt straps, but I’ve found that my bag stays put if I don’t load the bag too heavily. I’m not putting two rifle magazines per pouch; one per will do fine for me. The mag pouches are velcro-closure flaps, so no need to fumble with zippers. So far, I’m happy with my purchase. Let’s see how I feel after training with it.
From the requirements outlined on the first post, it screams either chest rig or belt. That belt or rig can be rolled up into any of the bags mentioned. I use a USAF helmet bag personally. My belt has all the options (plus com) mentioned. I have a TAG chest rig option as well but prefer the belt as the PC can be donned/removed and I still have stuff and mobility. I also have a tenspeed bandoleer with 6 mags and a couple of ammo bandoleers with ammo on stripper clips stuffed in the bag. Balance your needs as it can get heavy fast with crap.
The idea in an active shooter or whatever scenario you are thinking is just time to grab a bag and the rifle and go and don the crap when you can. This is not BoB time or other. I agree once out the door with a rifle slung over the shoulder you are no longer “low profile”.
Look at the stickys in this forum under first, second and third line gear for a lot of good ideas, thoughts on deployment and rationale. That may help a lot in your decision.
Being LE, have you ever tried to handcuff with the sling ‘just around your neck’ or transitioned to the sidearm while moving with your rifle slung that way? BTDT. Does not work that well. I would recommend a two-point quick adjust. I like the Sheriff of Baghdad B-Sling, but there are many others. http://www.missionreadyequipment.com/sheriff-of-baghdad-b-sling
With the sling attached however you want at the front point, and the sling attached basically anyplace on the collapsible stock but the standard sling swivel mount, run the sling over your strong shoulder and out under your support arm.
With a good sling you can snug it up tight to shoot, cross body front for transition and lossen it it to stow the rifle cross back, muzzle up for handcuffing or other work.
Try it, you’ll like it!