From Mad Ogre’s blog. Did I miss something? Is this for reals?
3-7-10: Interesting things happening within the US Army in regards to their rifles. There is an Improved Carbine Competition announced now, and what’s more, they did not specify caliber. Hmmm. Interesting stuff considering comes on the heals of FNH losing the SCAR contract. This opens up a couple things I’m hopeful for. First, is the ACR and second is the 6.8SPC. Remington is pushing very hard to enter the military machine. I think their efforts are well placed and the investments Remington has made in the tactical arena are very shrewd. Remington, or Big Green as it’s known in the hunting community, has always been about Hooves and Horn hunting. They’ve done very little with the Military as they have had almost zero interesting in warfighting. Because of demand for an accurate bolt action sniper rifle, they’ve done that much… but Remington just never had their hearts in it. All the sudden we saw Big Green putting out a lot more tactical rifle options and then they jumped both feet into the Sport Utility Rifle market by bringing in Bushmaster and DPMS and then they buy AAC, the makers of some very nice Gun Mufflers. It was also a pleasant surprise to find that they have even developed there own type of Multicam camouflage specifically for combat and not hunting. Now, a company like Big Green isn’t going to make these moves without some idea that its going to pay off.
There are a lot of things here I can’t talk about as I don’t want to burn bridges of confidence… but let’s recap what’s going down.
FNH lost the contract for the US Marines for the M249 SAW. FNH lost the contract for the SCAR rifles. FNH had also just given the middle finger to all FNH stock dealers by going to a Distributor Only business model… which means dealers of FNH can no longer buy direct from FNH, and we now have to buy from a Distributor… So this added middle man increases the price per gun to the consumer and dealer alike. In a nut shell, there is no longer any money for the dealer to sell FNH guns anymore. Why bother? We will see FNH sales drop off like Mel Gibson’s career. I would no want to be an FNH investor right now. This is going to force internal cut backs at FN, which could reduce their production capacity… which could further jeopardize other contracts for them.
Back to Remington… They have geared up big time and want that Military Contract business. When the Military picks a weapon, Civilian sales for that weapon surge. Special Forces picked the SCAR and all the sudden that became the hottest rifle out there. Individual SCAR rifles sold for as much as six thousand dollars… every SCAR we had on the shelf sold real damn fast. Demand outstripped the supply. And now SOCOM dropped it? The popularity will drop as well. Expect to see used SCAR’s in the rifle racks within a year. Remington’s offering, the ACR however, has been highly anticipated since it was first introduced under the Magpul banner. People wanted it… and that desire has only grown. The ACR is out under two flags now. Bushmaster for Civilian Sales, and Remington for Military. The fact that they have established this organization shows they are ready for what will come. FNH loses the SCAR contract, the Army announces an Improved Carbine Competition… there is the Open Door that Remington has been planning on. Did they know that door was going to open for them? Maybe they did. At SHOT I saw a lot of Military guys hanging around the Remington booths – something I’ve never seen before. And some of these Officer’s were quite candid about their opinions of the SCAR and the ACR rifles. Officers that talked to me off the record were extremely impressed with the ACR and Remington both. The Military wants the ACR.
Regarding Caliber, the Military knows it needs more of it. The 5.56mm has been running for over 40 years now and only impresses those that don’t use it for combat. The Officers I spoke with about the SCAR and ACR also spoke highly of the 6.8 SPC cartridge. It shoots a bigger, heavier bullet which means it hits harder. Just what the Military wants. However this doesn’t mean that the 6.8 SPC is going to be selected. But it’s an option.
Between the 6.8 (which is a .270 diameter bullet, but much shorter that your standard .270 bullets we all know and love) and the 6.5 that is often mentioned in the same breath, the 6.5 does outperform in terms of trajectory and retained energy… it has a higher BC so it makes for a better projectile for longer range shooting – just what the Army is looking for. But I don’t think the Army is going to pick the 6.5 Grendel cartridge. That’s kind of a done deal on that count. Now, that doesn’t mean the Army couldn’t find another 6.5… something totally new could be developed. The door is open… just who and what goes through it is going to be very interesting.
3-2-10: Looks like FNH has just lost the SCAR contract with SOCOM. Reports have been coming in that this decision was long in coming and FN did not make good to resolve SOCOM’s issues with the weapon system. This leaves room for the Remington ACR, which Remington was ramping up for big time and strutting around with some Military Officers who were more than happy with what they have found in the ACR. It’s my prediction that SOCOM is going to be running some ACR’s very soon and that eventually, the US Army will be running ACR’s. Hopefully, eventually we will see the ACR’s in 6.8 SPC in the hands of our warriors.
Don’t laugh. When I predicted SOCOM was going to drop the SCAR, I got a lot of laughs… well, I’m laughing now. Eat Crow. You know who I’m talking to. I think the 6.8 is going to come along as well. I don’t know for certain if the ACR is going to be the gun of the month with SOCOM, but it’s my guess that it will be. You don’t see a company like Remington jump with both feet in to the tactical game, giving Civilian ACR’s to Bushmaster and keeping Remington on the name plate for Military ACR’s… Remington is up to something big time. Those guys that saw the booths at SHOT know what I’m talking about. When you see military officers hanging out with guys from Remington, you know something is up.
Does the country even have the money to switch over to 6.8SPC caliber? I really don’t know the logistics of military ammunition but I’m pretty sure there’s lot of 5.56 out there along with rifles to shoot them. How would they go about making the switch?
Mad Ogre doesn’t really have any credibility. This is the guy that got “internet famous” for perpetuating the stupid myths about the M-16 “shitting where it eats” and all the other usual gun show claptrap.
Now, Mad Ogre’s nonsense aside - the technology behind the SCAR? Of course it’s already obsolete. It uses the gas system of the M1 Carbine and has a fixed charging handle like an AK. All the current bullet-throwers are obsolete. There have been tiny, incremental, evolutonal changes, but there hasn’t been a technological leap in small arms in a while. XM25 comes close…
Oh, I certainly understand that the SCAR is all evolution rather than revolution. I don’t think we’ve really seen anything new in small arms since shortly after WWII.
Still, I was surprised to read Mad Ogre’s comments on the SCAR. I had been under the impression that FN and SOCOM worked hand-in-hand that that every feature on the SCAR was pretty much there because that’s what SOCOM wanted. It seems to defy all probability that the gun would be developed with direct input from end users, be adopted and put into production and then get dumped in just a few short years. Maybe the SCAR was adopted as a stop-gap measure until the next “leap ahead” and was kind of a one time only deal. Could that be what MO’s talking about?
. . . my local gun store had a few of them and sold out immediately like MO stated. So I dont have one, yet!
I did hear though, that the couple of lucky guys who got them were SWAT and one of the officers that got one, fell through a roof and had the receiver crack on him, leaving him alone and with only a sidearm. Just wondering, have you guys have had any reliability problems with them Rana? Judging by your avatar… you’re probably more of an expert than my local gunstore guy!
I have been very impressed with the SCARS. I’ve shot both the L & H military versions as well as the 16S. The SCAR-H I shot was the 13" version that I felt was very controllable and comfortable to fire. In my mind it is the 21st century FAL and a welcome evolution to smalll arms development. The fact that I (6’ 3" & 190lbs.) could contol 2-3 shot bursts on an IPSC steel at 50yds. with a 13" 7.62 rifle excited the hell out of me.
I don’t have a problem with the fixed charging handle, and actually am a fan on it on a serious rifle. It combines two component parts that are found on the AR system-the charging handle & forward assist. I have bent and witnessed charging handles get broken of all makes (excluding the VLTOR/BCM ones, haven’t seen enough to conclude). We can all admit that it is a relatively flimsy part on the rifle. A fixed charging handle is much tougher nd will also allow greater force to be applied when the need to clear malfunctions such as stuck cases arise. The fixed CH also eliminates the need for a separate forward assist. If the bolt didn’t go into battery, simply reach up with the non-weapon hand and heel strike it. That is more efficient then removing the weapon hand from fire control to strike a round knob to put the bolt into battery.
I am looking to possibly thin the M4 herd to get my own SCAR, more than likely a 5.56 to fit my current spending allowances because it is that next rung in the ladder of small arms development. It has nice features, is quick to handle, the SCAR 16S I fired with a Surefire MB556K recoiled like a loud .22LR, and it fixed a lot of the “less-than-strong” points of the AR family of weapon systems. The only complaints I have with the SCAR is the gigantic front sight housing, however with modern RDS or ACOG’s, I rarely use the irons, unless it’s for added training value.
We will have to wait and see what Bushmaster can do with the ACR. The last ACR I messed with said “Masada” on the side and the handguards were held on there with super glue as it was a test prototype. Still, I like the concept behind it, but the problem is when concepts get passed around like a village whore, they never quite end up how they started. I hope to be pleasently surprised by Bushmaster, but I won’t be running to the sportsbook to bet on it anytime soon.
I caught that and I’m sure the guy’s got his own personal ax to grind for some reason.
What I don’t understand is why he would make such a bold and absolute statement about the SCAR getting bumped if he didn’t, at least in part, believe it to be true. I would think the likely scenario is something that started as a simple statement but has been morphed into a death knell for the SCAR. A statement like this that doesn’t come to fruition will remove any hint of credibility the guy has, if he has any at all.
I’d assume, as with most rumors, there is a grain of truth to all this. Somebody in the know probably told somebody else, “Well, SOCOM has bought all the SCAR’s they plan to buy for the time being.” This got told to somebody else and we’re now seeing–like the game we played as children–the statement devolve into, “SOCOM is unhappy with the SCAR and is already looking for a replacement.”
Hey now-- nutnfancy has a skill I could never have… he has the ability to review firearms he’s never shot or even handled! That takes some serious skill!
Because he has his own company and products to promote instead. On his youtube channel he commented that Crusader Weaponry (Ever heard of them? Yeah, that’s what I though) makes “a better gun than that SCAR.” I politely challenged him on the issue but rather than debate the facts he chose to simply delete my comments. Guess I won’t be watching his videos any more.
Sorry, guys. This is my first “experience” with Mad Ocra. I didn’t know if the guy was serious or not. I deal with morons all day at work and just assumed that we had the market cornered.
All the current bullet-throwers are obsolete. There have been tiny, incremental, evolutonal changes, but there hasn’t been a technological leap in small arms in a while. XM25 comes close…
