SCAR already obsolete?

General Firearms Other Semi-Automatic Rifles
21

AAR’s for the “Heavy” have been favorable overall. The gun doesn’t have a long history to date. I for one see it as a step in the right direction; considering that we were still running M14 variants prior to the SCAR-H. The M14 is a good rifle but “tactically-speaking” it was made for an infantry man in a different era. The ergonomics as well as control levers of the SCAR mixed with the 7.62 Caliber make it a winner in some theaters of operations without a doubt.

As with any weapon system I won’t pass judgment until it weathers the test of “TIME.” For the same reason I will take a Glock 17 over a M&P9… They both may be great pistols but the G17 has been proven to be so for over 20 years now.

As for the OP. There are morons everywhere. Unfortunately guns have a way of attracting many of the mentally challenged. I can’t tell you how many times I have had people “correct” me about the weapons in use by the very organization I am affiliated with! It is astounding how many people who KNOW NOTHING claim to know everything.

Ironically-Those who don’t know everything (and are aware of it) seem to have more to offer than not in my experience.

22

I know the guy personally and I like him. He has a bit of BTDT in his past that he does not brag about not that it’s relevant to the matter at hand.

He uses his blog to create talking points. That being said, I’d like to see his sources on this bit of info he post.

23

Interesting Discussion on this same topic - Read all the way through.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10133

24

We have enjoyed a valuable input on SCAR from FN mil reps who are members here. Maybe Brett could chime in with a clarification.

25

Spot on…

During the latter part of the 15th century Jaspard Zoller of Vienna gave us rifling in our barrels. Claude Etienne Minié and some other Frenchman gave us the Minié Ball several centuries later which took full advantage of Mr. Zoller’s rifling. A little after that the Frenchman Paul Vieille gave the world Smokeless Powder. Colt, Gatling, Maxim, Browning all exploited these feats. And so it continues… The SCAR platform (L & H) is IMHO the refinement of century’s worth knowledge of combat arms. It’s not perfect but it’s arguably the best we’ve got until the next great mind comes up with a more efficient way of securing heart beats.

26

I had thought that SOCOM was very happy with the SCAR? It seems like I hear nothing but good things about it, save for the occasional comment about the charging handle. It strikes me as odd to hear essentially the opposite from people supposedly in the know (referring to the professionalsoldiers forum).

27

I was under the same assumption. Although very few, the comments that I read and heard were all positive.

I hope that the Obama administration isnt the one to put the final nail in the SCAR coffin. The SCAR project simply may be losing funding.
We shall see.

28

Another thread regarding the SCAR:

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26329&highlight=scar

29

HK G11 wouldve been tits…

30

blah blah ACR blah blah blah ACR blah blah blah ACR…

someone has stock in Remington

31

Two new things may be behind:

10–M4 Carbine Modification Kit
Solicitation Number: W15QKN-10-X-0435
https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=6c142af092ab01de3f042b56e7a012b9&tab=core&_cview=0

and the long awaited new carbine solicitation supposedly due out this spring that opens the door for a new caliber if the Army Times is to be believed.

There are several things going on about the SCAR, but I’m indirectly informed, so I have nothing specific to add.

32

Technically, since there isn’t anything really better than the weapons fielded now means they are not obsolete, no matter how old they are.

The SCAR is a very nice weapon and shoots well, but it’s really a fixer of some fairly minor problems.

Modularity – ok, you can change the barrel faster than on an M-16 series. But then, you can change an upper pretty quick on the M-16 series, so not a big hairy one.

Piston – ok, you can get pistons for the M-16 series.

Folding stock – advantage you can’t get with the M-16 series

Caliber changes – not a big deal in intermediate calibers as it’s just an upper change in the M-16 series. MUCH easier if going to a longer round, like the 7.62x51, where you need an entire new M-16 type rifle, and don’t with SCARs built on the CUR.

Fixed charging handle – as said before it’s an advantage to not have a separate charging handle and forward assist. It’s also nice to be able to cycle the bolt manually without dismounting the rifle or punching yourself in the face.

So, it’s not, IMO enough reason to dump the M-16 series to get the small advantages the SCAR has. Where the SCAR really shines is in it’s original role – that of a new 7.62x51 thrower. The SOCOM (Lead by the Dept. of the Navy) wanted what’s known as the SCAR-H from the beginning. The SCAR-L concept was developed more as a way to try and sell the concept as a complete replacement for the M-16 series, M249, and as a modern battle rifle, as well as a way to better amortize the R&D cost of the SCAR over a largeer number of units and greatly decrease unit cost.

The VAST majority of SCAR products, at least for DoD, are for the SCAR-H. I have a feeling that’s the way it will stay, although once SOCOM has all the SCAR-Hs they want they make re-equip with SCAR-L variants so that at least they have a common weapon system. But I doubt we’ll ever see the main Army and Marine Corps units being re-equipped.

The SCAR-L variants are most likely going to stay primarily a civilian niche market type thing.

33

Tell me if I’m right or wrong, but wasn’t the SF interest in the 7.62mm NATO SCAR-H because of superior barrier defeating capability rather than long range performance?

34

If the rumors prove true, then this will make the taxpayer waste on the H&K Mark 23 look insignificant. Until then, I’m assuming that the Fat Lady hasn’t even begun to warm up yet.

Another example: when SOCOM solicited an M4 that could use AK mags after 9/11. Knights came out with the SR-47 and they did nothing with it IIRC.

35

For a “dead” program, NSWC-Crane seems awfully busy issuing solicitations for SCAR-specific accessories, like Mk16/Mk17 Force-on-Force kits and Weapon Shot Counters.

36

Interesting news.

37

F the military will take up the 6.8 cartridge thenthere will be mrs manufacturers who will make it and hopefully will make the 6.8 ammo a little cheaper. Hopefully they make it a STD cartridge so I can my hands on mil surp.

38

It would have been probable IF NATO had been involved in it. I think the 6.8 SPC is a better cartridge for terminal ballistics but the logistics required to make it widespread in the military (and for us citizen-soldiers) seems a long shot to me.

39

Maybe Mad Ogre IS wrong after all…

http://www.fnhusa.com/le/press/detail.asp?id=82

40

What are the freight cost difference shipping 500,000 uppers compared to 500,000 SCAR barrels in varying lengths, with conversion kits?

What about the storage requirements for M4 uppers vs SCAR barrels?

On of the big points for the SCAR was to simplify the logistical footprint and have one core weapon replace multiple weapon systems.

One person changing uppers in their basement is not the same as supporting the military.