Rmpl,
Just pick a powder that will over flow on a pistol case if double charged. I use Ramshot Silhouette for 9mm…
-Dave
I think your math might be off, or you’re reloading .223 brass less times than I do.
Partially processed (swaged/polished) once-fired Lake City is good for 4 or 5 reloads and runs $90-115 per 1K.
That’s $.018 to $.023 per firing.
55gr FMJ in bulk runs $.075 per round
Primers in bulk, including the haz-mat charge runs $.025 per round (or less if you buy a LOT)
Poweder in bulk, for surplus WC844 runs as little as $.037 per round
All-in you’re looking at ~$.155 per round or $3.10 per box of 20 using good components.
You can get it down to ~131 per 1K or $.131 per round or $2.62 per box of 20, and this is with buying once fired commercial brass at $50 per K and pulled bullets at $65 per 1K.
Sure, $45-$69 per 1K doesn’t take into account your time (or “free brass”), but cost wise it’s still slightly cheaper than steel cased and generally shoots better and cleaner.
Only you can decide if it’s worth your time. .223 and 9mm will always be a “false” economy if all you’re in it for is the cost savings.
+1 You’ll notice the powder spilled all over the place if you double charge a pistol cartridge.
And thanks for the instructions, davestarbuck. What you described is about what I envisioned doing with my Dillon 550B.
I’m glad I could help!
-Dave
Mizer; you haven’t taken into consideration the cost of the reloading equipment. The press, dies, tumbler, trimmer, scale, etc… Trust me. I’ve done a LOT of reloading in my time. Mostly handgun. I still reload hunting rounds; but that’s for specific results.
Some rounds can definitely be justified for reloading. Look at my 30-378. A box of commercial ammo; 20 rounds; is $130.00. Fortunately, I don’t shoot that very often. And when I’m reloading my 7mm magnum, I’m reloading what is normally a $30 box of ammo. But I am basically loading one round at a time. Yes, I have a progressive turret press, but with hunting rounds, it’s actually easier to just go through the process one cartridge at a time.
But when you’re dealing with .223, you aren’t loading and shooting a box of ammo. You want hundreds if not thousands of rounds. (At least I do. I shoot about 400 a month). And if a person already had a complete reloading station that they were doing other calibers, then adding the cost of another set of dies is no big thing. But to start off reloading; for the .223; and having to buy the right equipment to do ammo in this bulk, is pretty expensive in it’s own right.
Look; reloading IS A HOBBY. Especially if you’re trying to reload ammo that normally can be bought for $4-$5 dollars a box to shoot. And there is nothing wrong with hobbies. You all don’t want to know what I spend on home theater or restoring old cars. But it’s very misleading to tell a person how cheap it is to reload for .223. If they’re already an avid reloader, and are reloading handgun ammo in bulk, then they already know the answer. And they AREN’T THE ONES asking about reloading .223. They already have the equipment; they’ve spent the time; they’re simply adding another caliber. But for starting off new; reloading for .223 is not the right answer.
A basic lee 1000 or master progressive is going to cost $170-$240. Throw another $70 for a tumbler. Another $100-$300 for a power case trimmer. Even a single hand run power trimmer is about $70. Without going any further, we’re already at about $400. That’s for a basic decent set up. Scales, lube, etc… There’s still more to this. You yourself said you can reload for $2.65 - $3.10 a box. That’s a savings of $0.90 - $1.35 a box of .223. So; once you’ve reached the 8,000 round mark reloaded; you’ve FINALLY paid off your reloading gear. I’ll even be nice and figure the person bought all manual gear, and instead spent more time than money. So; when you get to about the 4,000-5,000 round count, you’ve paid off your equipment.
Again; nothing wrong with hobbies. And if you already reload, then adding an additional few dollars for another die set caliber is no big deal. But a person who is asking about reloading; obviously doesn’t reload. This is a HOBBY. It’s not a big time money saving venture. Not for .223 alone. And as for time, when I was younger, I reloaded more often. I made less money and had more time. Now; I make a lot more money, and prefer to spend my time doing other things. If you don’t have a life, and you’d only be watching tv anyway, then your time reloading isn’t an issue. For me; there are so many other things I could be doing and prefer to be doing. By the expenses alone make reloading for just .223, and getting into the HOBBY NEW, a very expensive venture.
I have to agree that at the moment to me .223 may be false economy… but these days 9mm I beg to differ. I load 124 FMJ’s for $107 a K on a XL650 at 800-900 an hour, 2K a month. Inspection including, case sorting with a shell sorter to weed out the .380 ACP and cleaning in corncob and nu-finish take only a mere fraction of the time rifle does.
A savings of over $200 a K over Wally world ammo is definately not false economy.
It’s really not bad. i can crank out 200 rounds an hour, and I hand prime. If you have a fully automated dillon presses or something you can probably do 4 times that. My whole reloading setup cost me about 250 bucks though. (old RCBS ammomaster, thanks lowdrag)
Christcorp,
You can maintain a 400 rd a month .223 habit with very basic equipment.
But you will get cheaper and better quality ammunition than the steel cased stuff.
The fancy equipment pays for itself with time. That’s what I’m saying.
-Dave
You are correct. With my level of shooting; if i didn’t already own reloading equipment and was starting from scratch, the reloading equipment would pay for itself in about 2 years. For the person not shooting 300-400+ rounds a month; you’re looking at a 3-4 years to pay off the equipment.
It’s still a hobby. Saving $1-$2 a box for ammo you don’t do to “Save” money on ammo. You do it because you want to. Because it’s a hobby. When you’re saving $10 a box on handgun ammo, you do it because it’s financially beneficial. When you’re saving $20+ on a box of rifle hunting ammo; you’re doing it because it’s financially very smart, plus, you are aiming for specific quality levels for hunting.
There’s a lot of reasons for reloading. But when it comes to starting off from scratch in the reloading hobby, with the sole purpose of reloading .223 ammo, that is simply not worth it. Not for the paper puncher. I have friends who are national competitors. They reload most of their .223 for competition purposes. But when they want to go out and blow off a few hundred rounds, we get steel case at $4 a box or some PMC on sale for $6.50. But they don’t reload for their day to day .223 plinking ammo. It’s not worth it. But whatever a person does, it’s their money and their time. I use to reload 6 different calibers. 3 handgun (45acp, 38spl, and 9mm). I also reloaded 7mm, 30-30, and 30-378. I’ve gotten older. I prefer doing other things with my time. I recognize that reloading is a hobby. I now only reload the 7mm mag. I was doing the 30-378, but I’m selling that rifle. You have to shoot a lot to pay back the equipment, then a lot to justify your time. On paper; yes, you save a few dollars. (Depending on the caliber). Anyway; people can definitely do what they want. But a noob who doesn’t do any reloading currently, needs to realize that reloading .223 doesn’t even break even for a few years.
Of course its a hobby. Unless you have an FFL and are selling your ammo, it is a hobby.
However, $1-$2 a box is a HUGE savings. If you are normally paying $6.50 [low end brass cased ammo] and save $1.50 a box, which does not even fill a magazine, you are saving almost 25% Multiply that $1.50 by 50 for a 1000rd case and you have saved $75. Go to a few classes and you have saved several hundred dollars.
Just filling up a 30rd PMAG you save over $2 using the average of your $1-$2 a box
If you are an occasional paper puncher it takes a long time to break even with equipment costs. People who train and drill and practice a lot can break even very quickly.
And by buying components in bulk, you can also help smooth out the spikes in ammo prices. I know that during the post election spike in ammo prices, I had NO availability issues since I was loading my own and I also saved a ton of money since my components were bought in bulk beforehand and tided me over.
When you’re saving $10 a box on handgun ammo, you do it because it’s financially beneficial. When you’re saving $20+ on a box of rifle hunting ammo; you’re doing it because it’s financially very smart, plus, you are aiming for specific quality levels for hunting.
There’s a lot of reasons for reloading. But when it comes to starting off from scratch in the reloading hobby, with the sole purpose of reloading .223 ammo, that is simply not worth it.
Again, it depends on how much you shoot. If you are shooting only 300-400 a month you (with your numbers) would save $15 to $40 per month (taking the extremes of both the volume and cost). That is $180 to $480 a year. Within a year or two you could have basic loading equipment paid for.
If you shoot one or two boxes a month, then it will take a really long time to make up the cost and would probably not be worth it.
Even 223, for most active shooters, is worth it to reload for unless you are so strapped for time you cannot spare a couple of hours a month.
Not for the paper puncher. I have friends who are national competitors. They reload most of their .223 for competition purposes. But when they want to go out and blow off a few hundred rounds, we get steel case at $4 a box or some PMC on sale for $6.50. But they don’t reload for their day to day .223 plinking ammo. It’s not worth it. But whatever a person does, it’s their money and their time. I use to reload 6 different calibers. 3 handgun (45acp, 38spl, and 9mm). I also reloaded 7mm, 30-30, and 30-378. I’ve gotten older. I prefer doing other things with my time. I recognize that reloading is a hobby. I now only reload the 7mm mag. I was doing the 30-378, but I’m selling that rifle. You have to shoot a lot to pay back the equipment, then a lot to justify your time. On paper; yes, you save a few dollars. (Depending on the caliber). Anyway; people can definitely do what they want. But a noob who doesn’t do any reloading currently, needs to realize that reloading .223 doesn’t even break even for a few years.
They way I see it, shooting less doesn’t reduce your savings much. Less rounds means less brass prep, and less than $200 in tools can easily get you reloading on a single stage press. No need for a 550B (which I have, and love) and a Giraud trimmer when you’re shooting 50 rounds a month.
I’m saving around $12 per 20 on my .223 rounds using nicer projectiles. Sure, I spend some time loading them… but I got lots of time and not a lot of money, and there is a distinct shortage of people willing to trade their money for my time lately.
Guys shooting AR’s seem to forget that being able to go down to the range once a week and blast through a couple of cases of ammo on their own dime is a luxury.
Hell, it’s worth several dollars a hundred not to have to pick up the brass, much less process it! 
Unfortunately, it would cost me ~$.75/round extra to purchase the equivalent to my 77 gr precision load. Assuming I could even find something to match.
Shooting is my hobby, (not saying everyone is like me, btw). While I once considered reloading to be a hobby, it’s now a necessary evil.
If I only had 100-300 Yd ranges, it’s debatable if I would reload for .223. I would spend that money on barrels that like 55gr factory. Different story for .45 ACP - easy as pie. (I load, though most not very often, for about 10 metallic calibers plus 4 shotgun gauges.)
chadbag - I think you mentioned you belled the case mouth on a different loader - was that for .223? The backup rod on the 1050’s swaging station already puts a small bell on the case mouth - do you have some secret we need to know about?
The bell from the backup rod is kind of magic - the belled case mouth ends up being the same O/D as a loaded round, or ~.005" over the resized O/D. I add a very light tapper crimp anyway.
ETA:
boltcatch I’m somewhat in your boat, except I was near enough to retirement age and somewhat ready for it. I feel for everyone caught up in this economic mess.
Well, I am not belling any normal rifle (I do bell 458 socom since I am loading flat base 45-70 bullets). I do neck expand since the RT1200B trim/size die does not have the normal neck expander ball. To minimize brass working I got a hint from a customer who said to use a lyman M die. So I set that up on my trim/size die toolhead and have it just adjusted enough so that the first part of the M die goes into the top of the case. The second section of M-die that does the little “out flare” thing I do not use. I don’t have it adjusted down that much.
So I have a 650 toolhead set up with a DECAP die on station 1, RT1200B on station 3, and the M die on station 5. Again, the M die is just adjusted to put the first thinner section into the case mouth a bit.
On the 1050 I have another decap die at station 1 (to get rid of any media that may stick in the flash hole since I do a quick de-lube tumble in between the size/trim on the 650 and the loading on the 1050). The rest of the 1050 is set up as normal. I do have a Lee factory crimp die in lieu of the original Dillon taper crimp die. I don’t know why – just wanted to try it.
I have not tried measuring the swage backup rod thing to see if it could do my case mouth expansion for me instead of using the M-die (or a full length sizer backed out to just do the case mouth neck expander step).
Nothing magic and just following some competition shooter advice I got from a customer.
I use the 1050 for 55 and 62 grain training ammo. I will be setting up a 650 toolhead to do 75/77 grain stuff eventually. I don’t want to fart around with the 1050 setup since I have it running smoothly.
I don’t need a 1050 but finally got one since as a dealer I get asked about them a lot and decided I wanted some first hand experience to be able to answer questions intelligently That’s my answer and I am sticking with it.
10-4 on neck expanding, not belling.
I like the neck tension on my RCBS sized cases. I’m not sure I get to the same place, but I size in a Redding Turret press first (using the RCBS die). The Dillon trimmer (in a 650 tool head) is backed out so it does not resize. I think this gives me more neck tension than resizing in the trimmer. Even then, it’s possible to get bullet setback in an A2/Rifle chamber with the heavy bullets.
I will only shoot reloaded 68-77 grain bullets in a chamber with M4 feed ramps.
FWIW, I load both 55 Hor FMJBTs and the 77 SMKs in the 1050 using the same seater setting for both. With the 77s set at 2.155", the 55s end up ~2.138". TAC works well for both so it’s just a matter of adjusting the powder drop. Just food for thought.
I knew you knew what was what, but did not want to confuse others (read: inexperienced new loaders) who might read this.
I like the neck tension on my RCBS sized cases. I’m not sure I get to the same place, but I size in a Redding Turret press first (using the RCBS die). The Dillon trimmer (in a 650 tool head) is backed out so it does not resize. I think this gives me more neck tension than resizing in the trimmer.
Actually neck tension is unrelated to the sizing on the trimmer directly, in as much as the trim die does not expand the neck. So ONLY using the trim die you would end up with super neck tension as the inside of the case mouth would be extra small from the sizing action. Some people I have read just leave it since they are using boat tail bullets anyway and have no problems with bullet seating. The way I do it just opens up the mouth a very slight amount so I get a lot of neck tension. The M die insert is probably thinner/narrower than most expander balls so it expands it less, plus I don’t shove it all the way down the neck.
Try this if you like the expander on the RCBS die: set the trim die to also size. Then set up the RCBS die, turned out (up) so ONLY the neck expander does it things but the die itself does not touch the brass. This should get you to the same approximate place as the way you are doing it but with less steps.
Even then, it’s possible to get bullet setback in an A2/Rifle chamber with the heavy bullets.
I will only shoot reloaded 68-77 grain bullets in a chamber with M4 feed ramps.
FWIW, I load both 55 Hor FMJBTs and the 77 SMKs in the 1050 using the same seater setting for both. With the 77s set at 2.155", the 55s end up ~2.138". TAC works well for both so it’s just a matter of adjusting the powder drop. Just food for thought.
I figure I could do that but I have a Redding micrometer seating die and setting up a separate 75/77 toolhead lets me fool around and have the freedom to try different things etc without messing with the bread and butter 55/62.
Plus, I will probably use a different powder on the 75/77. I use WC844 pr WC844T on the 55/62 but WC846 works better on the heavier ones. TAC is more like the WC846. (as an aside the WC844 also works on 6.8 so I need to get more WC844! 
)
You’re only saving $12 per 20, because you choose to buy $15+/- per box .223 ammo. The OP asked about reloading .223 compared to buying $4 steel case ammo. I’ve acknowledged a number of times that for people who are into match competition, long range shooting, etc… reloading can be beneficial for the .223. But for the person who doesn’t mind shooting $4 steel case ammo, it’s not a big savings. The average person will take about 2-3 years in savings to pay of the press and other equipment. Then, they will start saving between $1-$2 a box for ammo, compared to the steel ammo. And apparently, some people don’t consider their time worth anything; so we won’t even include the amount of time. That part is the “Hobby” part.
I personally, use to do a lot of reloading. I no longer do any, except for hunting rounds. I have the ability now, to find ammo deals at the right time, and use that for leverage. I.e. Before the big ammo scare when Obama got elected, I have bought a shiite-load of ammo. 45acp at $10 a box. 9mm at $6. 38spl at $8. 357 mag at $10. M2 Ball. etc… I kept plenty for myself and sold a lot and made money. If you can buy in bulk it’s not bad. I just bought a couple thousand rounds of .223 a month ago for $179 for 1000 each. That’s $3.59 a box. Sorry; it’s not worth my time. But; for the person who is going to the gun store and buying .223 ammo for $8-$15 a box; it’s probably worth the $300+ investment for startup costs.
Peace. You don’t see the savings, and don’t want to spend any time on reloading .223. To you it’s not worth is and that’s fine, I’m not trying to convince you.
I personally see no problem with presenting accurate figures for the cost is takes to produce the ammo yourself. It’s up to the individual to decide if it’s worth it to them to spend the time required and the money it takes to get set up.
I never commented on the time required, as that’ll differ for everyone, even with the same equipment.
A few more points:
1.) You’re comparing apples to oranges. Steel cased doesn’t shoot nearly as well as any reloaded .223 I’ve ever fired in my guns. There’s an accuracy (customizability, etc.) loss that to me makes shooting less interesting.
2.) I shoot ~7K of .223 annually and about 12K of .40 S&W, with 1K of .308 mixed in too. ~20K annually more than pays for my equipment, even if I only save 5 cents per round. The equipment pretty much lasts forever if you take care of it, so every year after the first, it’s more than paid for itself if you resist constant upgrading.
3.) Someone starting out can do so very cheaply, and doesn’t need high volume equipment to keep up, because if they’re asking about reloading, they’re probably not shooting 400/mo. Doing 200/mo. on a single stage is no big deal. The time is in the brass prep, not the actual charging of the round and seating the bullet. If they’re shooting 5K annually, they’ll know when it’s time to step up a level in their equipment and won’t have to ask if the time/economics work for them, typically.
4.) You’re comparing the cheapest, typically worst performing ammo available. The math quickly changes when you step up to something in .223 loaded with better components like SMKs vs. factory Fed GMM.
Yes, reloading is a hobby. It’s important to me as it helps me enjoy my shooting more, so I make the time. It also extends the budget I devote to shooting.
I am not, nor have I disagreed with you at all. You are totally correct. But I believe that you’re the one who is comparing apples to carburetors. You reload to improve on accuracy. That is important to you. No problem there. I mentioned that point a number of times. You’re shooting numerous calibers. With the amount you shoot, cost is also no problem. But that is not what the original poster asked. And that’s where the “Apples” need to come back into this bowl of fruit.
The OP, unless he says otherwise, is going to be new to reloading. He doesn’t do any reloading currently. (If he did, he’d already know the cost, pros/cons, etc… of reloading .223). He specifically asked about the cost of reloading, compared to buying steel case ammunition. For him; he apparently isn’t concerned with 0.5moa at 100 yards. He simply wants to shoot .223, have fun, and do it cost effectively. And for the first time reloader, who is going to need to buy a press, dies, trimmer, polisher, etc…; as well as the cost of materials and time, it will be a couple of years of reloading until he breaks even just on the initial start-up costs. If I started reloading .223, the start-up costs would be about $30 for a set of dies. I already have a complete reloading set-up. I choose not to reload .223 because of the time involved. I have a lot of other things I’d rather do with my time. Even for the couple hours a week required to reload a few hundred rounds for that weekend’s shooting.
But we’re not talking about me. We’re not talking about you. We’re talking about a person who is wanting to simply shoot .223 for the enjoyment of it, and whether reloading the .223 is “Financially” better than buying steel case ammunition at $4 a box. He presented the question. Not me. And the short answer is: No. It’s not financially worth it. Not for him. Now if he was going to get into reloading other calibers; especially calibers that will net him a savings of $10+ a box of ammo; and he likes the hobby side of reloading, it could be a really good deal. That is the “Apples to Apples” that you’re looking for. Talking about shooting 20,000 rounds a year is NOT Apples to Apples. Shooting numerous calibers is NOT Apples to Apples.
Here’s an example. I like to restore cars. If a person asked me if it would be worth restoring a '67 camaro they bought or paying $5,000 to have it restored, and they’ve never done any restoring before, I would say it would be worth paying the $5,000. I’m even assuming that the skill/knowledge is there and not an issue. The reason it would be worth paying the $5,000, is because it could cost that much, or more, just for the tools needed to do the job. Then add on all the materials. But if a person already has all these tools (Currently is reloading); and is already allocating the time to this hobby; then adding a “new car” (Different caliber) is not a big deal. But the original poster has given the impression that this is a new endeavor for him. So; if he doesn’t mind having to reload about 8,000 rounds, just to break even on the startup costs of reloading, then go for it. No big deal. But most people aren’t shooting the 7,000 rounds of .223 a year that you say you are shooting. They’re probably shooting 1000-2000 at most per year. That’s a $50-$100 savings per year for them. That’s around 3-4 years to paying off the initial investment. We’re not talking about accuracy. We’re not talking about reliability. We’re only talking cost. Some people, including me, aren’t putting a rifle on a bench rest and trying to shoot .5moa. We’re burning up ammo. I’ll stop by the range on the way home and kill 200+ rounds in an hour. Just to do it. I don’t care about that level of accuracy from a .223 at 100 yards. Many people with a .223 simply want to blow out ammo and hit the target. That’s the “Apples to Apples” that you’re looking for.
This is an assumption on your part. It may or may not take several years to make up the cost of equipment. It depends on how much you shoot. The OP (who already reloads I think from other posts) is demonstrating based on his amount of shooting and it was about 1.5 years. Someone who is new at reloading and shooting 200 a month will take a long time. The same person shooting 3000 a month will catch up very quickly.
If I started reloading .223, the start-up costs would be about $30 for a set of dies. I already have a complete reloading set-up. I choose not to reload .223 because of the time involved. I have a lot of other things I’d rather do with my time. Even for the couple hours a week required to reload a few hundred rounds for that weekend’s shooting.
But we’re not talking about me. We’re not talking about you. We’re talking about a person who is wanting to simply shoot .223 for the enjoyment of it, and whether reloading the .223 is “Financially” better than buying steel case ammunition at $4 a box. He presented the question. Not me. And the short answer is: No. It’s not financially worth it. Not for him.
Again, you are putting your prejudices on someone else. If someone else can save $1 a box (and have better ammo) and is shooting 3000 rounds a month it IS financially worth it. So stop it with the “it is not financially worth it” BS. It may not be to you but that is not a flat generic answer that is valid for all people.
Now if he was going to get into reloading other calibers; especially calibers that will net him a savings of $10+ a box of ammo; and he likes the hobby side of reloading, it could be a really good deal. That is the “Apples to Apples” that you’re looking for. Talking about shooting 20,000 rounds a year is NOT Apples to Apples. Shooting numerous calibers is NOT Apples to Apples.
Here’s an example. I like to restore cars. If a person asked me if it would be worth restoring a '67 camaro they bought or paying $5,000 to have it restored, and they’ve never done any restoring before, I would say it would be worth paying the $5,000. I’m even assuming that the skill/knowledge is there and not an issue. The reason it would be worth paying the $5,000, is because it could cost that much, or more, just for the tools needed to do the job. Then add on all the materials. But if a person already has all these tools (Currently is reloading); and is already allocating the time to this hobby; then adding a “new car” (Different caliber) is not a big deal. But the original poster has given the impression that this is a new endeavor for him. So; if he doesn’t mind having to reload about 8,000 rounds, just to break even on the startup costs of reloading, then go for it. No big deal. But most people aren’t shooting the 7,000 rounds of .223 a year that you say you are shooting. They’re probably shooting 1000-2000 at most per year. That’s a $50-$100 savings per year for them. That’s around 3-4 years to paying off the initial investment. We’re not talking about accuracy. We’re not talking about reliability. We’re only talking cost. Some people, including me, aren’t putting a rifle on a bench rest and trying to shoot .5moa. We’re burning up ammo. I’ll stop by the range on the way home and kill 200+ rounds in an hour. Just to do it. I don’t care about that level of accuracy from a .223 at 100 yards. Many people with a .223 simply want to blow out ammo and hit the target. That’s the “Apples to Apples” that you’re looking for.
Christcorp,
Sir, I’m not new to reloading per se, I’ve had my setup for about a year now, but I’ve got about 20,000 rounds under my belt so far.
My original intent for this post was to show some data on cost, in both time and money to reload bulk .223 vs buying steel cased ammuntion.
I’m hoping that we can help those persons who may be undecided on whether or not it is worthwhile to do so.
I do appreciate your viewpoint though, because you give very compelling reasons on why one wouldn’t want to invest in a reloading setup, components, and the time to learn and do.
I just hope if that those people, who don’t decide to start reloading, go out a buy a couple cases of whatever ammuntion they can afford and train!!!
-Dave