Reloading vs Buying Steel Cased Ammunition

General Firearms Reloading & Ammunition
1

Hey all,

I’m starting this thread to get some discussion going!!

For the record I don’t have any problems with steel cased ammo.

It’s my opinion that reloading brass cased ammunition is more cost effective in the long run, even after equipment cost is factored.

As a bonus I think that reloaded ammunition offers a better product in terms of reliablity and accuracy.

Some of this info is a quick regurgitation of my previous posting…

Reloading VS Buying Steel Cased Ammunition

Which calibers? 9mm and .223
What kind of firearms? Glock 19 and AR-15
For what purpose? “Tactical” or self defense training, tactical classes, IDPA and Defensive carbine matches.
Type of load? 55 gr FMJ for .223, 115 gr FMJ for 9mm
Accuracy standard? 4 moa for .223, 5-6” 25 yard group from 9mm

Ammunition expenditures ? For practice, assume 100 rounds rifle, 200 round pistol per week. This is actually about what I average per year.

Which means 5200 rds rifle and 10400 rounds 9mm per year.

Factory ammo:
Tula .223 55 gr ammo is $210.00/k $1092 per year, 9mm 115 gr FMJ is $185/k for $1924 per year. Total $3016 per year

Reloads:
For .223 assuming free brass
55 gr FMJ pulled from military ammo $147/3000
WC844 powder 25 gr/round $85/8 lb
Wolf/Tula .223 primer $20/k

Total Cost $0.11/round or $110/k, or $572/year

9mm, assuming free brass
115 FMJ from Montana Gold $298/4000
Ramshot Silhouette 5.6 gr/rd $56.50/4 lbs
Wolf Small Pistol Primer $25/k

Total cost $0.11/round or $110 k or $1,144

Total per year=$1716.00

Price difference= $1300/ per year

Reloading Equipment
Prices are from Brian Enos’ website

I like Dillon and faster is cheaper in terms of time. Total cost of my equipment would cost $1910 shipped to my door.
This includes a Dillon 550b reloader, RT 1200 Trimmer, Super Swage, Dies and Caliber conversion for .223 and 9mm, electronic scale,digital calibers, extra large tumbler and media separator. etc,etc.

So it would take 1 year and 5 months to pay for the equipment if you shoot steel cased ammo

Time factor:

With this equipment it is not difficult at all to sustain a loading rate of 400 rounds/hour. For 9mm that’s straight up, not including the time it takes to tumble clean the brass and to setup/swap toolheads.

For 10400 rounds a year that is a total of 26 hours per year of reloading. So ½ hour a week of loading will keep up.

For .223 we have to take into account brass prep time. Let’s see
For 1000 pieces of brass…
Intial Tumble= ½ hour
500 rd/hr Size/Deprime/Trim= 2 hours
Tumble off Lube= ½ hour
Swage Primer Pockets= 1 hour (easy)

So taking our time, 1000 pieces of brass would take 4 hours. So 5200 cases a year would take 20.8 hours per year or 24 minutes a week. It would be faster after initial prep because you wouldn’t have to swage the primer pockets again.

After prep you load 400 rd/hr no problem so 5200 case would take 13 hours per year, or around 15 minutes per week.

So .223 will take 29 minutes per week in total.

Around an hour a week will produce 200 rounds/wk of 9mm and 100 rounds/wk of .223 with a Dillon 550. Not too shabby!

Of course if you are shooting double that it’ll be 2 hours a week, and so on…

So is it worth it to save $1300/per year after the first year and a half?.. I think so…

What say you?

-Dave

2

I think you answered your question- for you, its worth it.

Just one observation, your prices for steel cased ammo are a little high(although I’m assuming your reloading prices have the same offset).

Last time I shopped for steel cased 9mm I was able to get it at $170 per 1000 delivered. Not a huge difference.

My only other comment is that $1300/52 hours is $25 per hour. Not bad. For some that may actually be more than they make (after tax) during the week. For others maybe not.

Personally I just haven’t had the time to get into reloading(nor have I been willing to make the initial investment).

3

I really wanted to illustrate how little time it takes to reload. A lot of people get hung up on the time required.

-Dave

4

I’ve made similar calculations and come to the same conclusions.

I’ve reloaded pistol cartridges for years and saved a bundle.

I don’t reload rifle cartridges, yet, but I do buy ammo with reloadable brass.

If you figure that a reloadable 5.56 or 7.62 NATO case is worth 5-10¢, then steel or Berdan ammo isn’t such a bargain, after all.

5

So taking our time, 1000 pieces of brass would take 4 hours. So 5200 cases a year would take 20.8 hours per year or 24 minutes a week. It would be faster after initial prep because you wouldn’t have to swage the primer pockets again.

After prep you load 400 rd/hr no problem so 5200 case would take 13 hours per year, or around 15 minutes per week.

I’m not saying it could not be done, but that’s at least 2 or 3 times faster than what I see and I use a 1050 for .223. I think you are overly optimistic, but then I don’t load at 100 mph with my hair on fire.

6

I’ve crunch the numbers. 1st: All the reasons you gave for reloading .223 over buying steel case are true. Except for cost. The cheapest brass alone will cost about $0.20 a piece. So; without any of the other components, you’re already at the cost of Steel. Some say that the brass is a “One Time Purchase”; then it’s about $0.11 per round; thus around $2 a box. That is true. However, a lot of people don’t realize that you can not reload the same brass endlessly. I use to load tens of thousands; if not close to hundred thousand handgun rounds. I usually only got a couple/few reloads before having to get more brass. Which meant buying ammo; shooting it; saving the ammo… Or buying new ammo again.

For a $10+ of ammo, it’s definitely worth it financially. The dies, press, components, etc… will pay themselves off. If you’ve got the time, and want to do it, it’s good. But for .223; if you don’t mind shooting steel case; then it’s definitely not worth it economically. Even without the cost of the dies and press, the components and brass make it really hard to load for $4 a box. The first batch with new brass is about $6 a box. After that, it’s $2. (Until you need new brass again). It’s averages out the $4. Now; if you can’t buy steel case ammo for $4, because you won’t order online, then I don’t know what to say. Reload it. But if you can buy online 1000 rounds for $200, it’s better than reloading.

But for all the other reasons, such as accuracy, reliability, match shooting, long range varmints, competition, etc… Reloading is definitely a good thing. But not for punching holes in paper with a .223. Buy the steel case, and spend ALL THAT EXTRA TIME actually shooting.

7

Processing rifle brass just sucks. Pistol ammo is not a problem with a progressive loader - just clean and load.

I’m semi retired and process brass to keep the costs down (plus I shoot more), but processing .223 brass is still a real PITA. I have long ranges to shoot on so it’s worth it to me to load with some precision in mind. Shooting steel at 700M with an A/R is a kick BTW.

I mostly bought reloadable factory ammo before and have enough IMI that I don’t have to cost the brass for awhile. I will not use range brass - great way to have a catastropic failure. I get 4 reloads from IMI and LC. I’ve not tried for 5 and probably won’t.

My (no brass) 55gr Hornady FMJBT practice load does somewhere around 2 MOA and current costs run about $3.28/box.

The 77 gr SMK load I shoot a lot of and have tailored to my SPR runs me $6.10/box. Big savings here.

Then there is waste and R&D costs - such as several hundred dollars of 75 gr Hornady OTMs I have on the floor that shot “OK”, but not as good as I anticipated. Maybe I’ll run them as my practice load sometime. Then there is the 16 Lbs of Varget left over when I decided TAC made a better long range load (for me) and worked well with both the 55s and the 77s.

So the real cost to reload may be higher than a spreadsheet calculation. And did I mention that processing rifle brass sucks?

8

Brass is FREE. It’s on the friggin ground. Pick it up. :smiley:

I would NEVER buy brass unless for a special/precision project. I’m able to find enough .223 brass that I only load 2 times and then dump it into recycle.

Anything I find that has been loaded by someone else just goes straight to recycle.

9

Two issues:

First: Just like there’s an economy of money, there’s an economy of time.

Reloading doesn’t take away from my shooting time at all.

Sure, it takes time to reload, but I don’t do it when I could be out shooting. I usually do it when the weather is crappy, or in the evening.

For me, reloading comes out of the time that I would probably otherwise spend watching TV or chatting with you knuckleheads.
No offense, but usually I’d much rather be in the garage listening to talk radio while I reload, anyway.

So, reloading doesn’t really cost me any extra time.

Second: How much fun is it to process rifle brass?

Seriously, how are you doing this?

I haven’t reloaded rifle cartridges (.30 Carbine doesn’t count), but my sense is that if you have the right equipment, then it’s not that big a PITA: dump the brass in the tumbler to clean it. Sift it. Lube it. Size it. Trim it. Maybe clean it again, and then load it. Am I missing something?

Is it really that bad?

10

+1, especially .223/5.56, because it’s so common. More than half of the .223/5.56 brass I have saved up came from other people.

Better yet, figure out which of your friends shoot the same calibers, and offer to give them a box or two of reloaded ammo in return for all their brass.

Worst case scenario: buy quality brass cased ammo, shoot it, and then reload the case four times.

11

Second: How much fun is it to process rifle brass?

For once fired IMI (what I have the most of):

Clean.
Decap and swage in the progressive.
Lube.
Resize.
Trim (thank God for electric trimmers).
Deburr (usually the first time trimmed only).
Clean again to remove lube (Optional - inspect flash holes for cleaning media.)
Optional: deburr flash holes. (Some batches will have metal crimped into the flash hole from the swage station.)
Reload while checking that primers seat flush or below. Tweak the swage station if not. (If over swaged, primers tend to fall out, btw.) Different lots of military brass may require different swage settings.

12

What about when you cannot easily buy ammo?

Pick up brass and buy once fired brass.

etc

13

Huh…?

Sir, how do you process brass?

I use a Dillon RT trimmer, and the associated .223 trim die.

On the 550 I can trim brass at a pace that puts a trimmed casing into the bin every 5 seconds, so around 500/ hr.

I’ve timed myself on the super Swage and I can do 100 cases in 7 minutes easily, so that’s 850/hour.

The four hours/1000 rounds is actually a bit conservative, as I recently processed 2500 cases in 6 hours from start to finish with no problem at all.

With that 1050 and a RT 1200 you should be able to fly through the brass prep! I’m really thinking about picking one up instead of buying my 2 guns for the year! Hell, a 1050 for 223 and a 650 for 9mm and keep the 550 setup for 6.8spc, I’d be happier than a dog with 2 dicks,

-dave

14

That’s the main reason I broke out the loaders again - especially for the 77 grain loads. Years ago my favorite match load was Black Hills 68 gr. which ran $300/1000. And IMI M193 was cheap enough to use for practice. It was also quite accurate out to 300M in my Colt 1x9 twist.

There is very little to nada once fired .223 brass left on the ground around here. If there is, the brass whores get to it pretty quick.

15

davestarbuck,

I resize in a cam-over single stage and then trim in a 650. I don’t claim this to be better and it probably does waste a little time (but not much). Just the way I prefer to do it.

Also, I prefer not to get brass shavings in the 1050. The 1050 runs near flawless and puts out some outstanding reloads. I try not to mess with it any more than necessary. The tool head is much faster to change in the 650, anyway.

I probably spend more time doing QC than some, but my nature is to be anal about reliability; and within reason, best accuracy. YMMV.

16

I size and trim (RT1200B) and neck expand on a 650 and then run it through the 1050 to load. I have a decap die on the 1050 to get rid of any media that may have gotten stuck in the flash hole in the post trim cleaning to get rid of lube step. The trimming on the 650 is as fast as I can pull the handle…

17

Tell me if I’m wrong here…

Wouldn’t it be possible to clean the brass, and then run it through a progressive with one toolhead that would decap, resize, and trim?

Then swag it (but only the first time it’s reloaded).

And doesn’t a good electric trimmer (Dillon?) make deburring unnecessary?

I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just trying out figure out how I’m going to do this for myself…

18

There are more expensive trimmers that trim and deburr in one step.

19

Bimmer,

The easiest and fastest method I’ve found is;

  1. Tumble/polish
  2. Lube
  3. Run cases through press using a toolhead that is setup (for a Dillon 550) like so.

1-Universal Decapper
2-Empty
3-Rt1200 trimmer on size/trim die
4-empty

4.tumble off lube (about 1/2hour)
5. Swage

Then to load I use a toolhead with ;

1-universal Decapper
2-powder die
3-bullet seat
4-Lee factory crimp die

I don’t deburr the case mouths,because the trimmer cuts very clean,and tumbling the cases will knock any burrs off anyway.

This method produces great quality ammo. Not match grade but better than wolf or other bulk ammo.

-dave

20

My thoughts…

I gave up on reloading .223… I hated brass prep and it was my #1 gripe. I found it hugely boring and often found other projects around the home more important. The fancy machines would have made it faster and easier, but still no fun. The Dillon Super-Swage I found it to be somewhat aggravating but better than any other option… There were MANY primer cups I know that were swaged a bit off and became looser than I would have liked. Blowing out each case to ensure all tumble media was out was also a pain, as the primer holes seemed perfectly sized to wedge in a piece of tumble media. The media tumbler worked ok, but primer holes were still an issue.

Plus, as others have said, you only get about 4 reloads out of your brass unless you load very light for just plinking. And ALL my occasional blown primer issues were ALWAYS with reloaded brass, usually near the end of their lifespans. I never had that with new ammo (crimped primers)…

For the range chickens who pluck up brass from the ground… Keep in mind that after 4 or 5 reloads I would not pick up that brass and just dump it into the brass can. I hope no one pulled out that brass and thought them to be once fired… Scary to think the risk they took thinking that brass was once fired…

If I shot PRECISION RIFLE, I would reload rifle… The cost savings is a no-brainer there…

That said, I am thinking of reloading PISTOL… A lot less prep, but it also seems to have more risk… Much easier to under or over charge a pistol than .223 (almost impossible to overcharge with rifle powders) So if I do, it will be with the best equipment I can buy and at a slower pace than some to ensure proper quality control…

Just my two cents…

Rmpl