Slightly OT here:
Grant, we just got a special run of 16.1" Stags with 4150 barrels 1/7" twist and very nicely machined M4 ramps(last month) . My question to Stag was why they install their taper pins opposite to everyone else’s?. Their key staking is notoriously poor to be sure.
Oh man…thanks Grant for posting this thread, first you knock my S.I.R. (and tell all why ARMS is a suck company)…then you have to go and BLAST my RRA M4gery:(
but I pulled it out of the case to double check it and I’m happy to report that my carrier was staked very well, and the feed ramps are pretty smooth and even(even if they did rip the anodizing off).
I’m still happy with mine though…it shoots like a laser(and now I’m saving for a “TDP” gun like you all keep talking about.
Whats next…are you going to tell me my 870 and my Kimber 1911’s are scrap metal too;)
Hey Raining Brass, I wouldn’t take it personally. One of my favorite and most reliable guns is an old hodge-podge of parts from various manufactures that defies the odds and keeps running. In fact the only failure I had was the gas key came loose around the 5K mark. The kicker there is it’s a Colt BCG :eek:
Shoot your RRA and enjoy it. At one time many thought that RRA was the best value going in the AR world 
I can understand the staking job here, few others do it right as well and if they did we wouldn’t have been introduced to Ned’s kick ass staking tool! But why in the hell would they dremel ramps in an upper? I would think it would be cheaper just to buy uppers with ramps already forged in them because you wouldn’t have to pay someone to stand there with a dremel tool all day. Maybe they are just using up old stock?
I’ve always said, if I were to get a RRA I’d have Steve build it for me.
I’m inclined to agree with bigbore on this one.
While I personally choose to have things done in what I consider to be the “right” way, I think many of us get far too carried away in regards to some of these matters. The reality is that for probably 95% (maybe even 99%) of non-LEO civilian owners, “almost as good” really is “good enough”. The worst thing that’s going to happen to the vast majority of us is that a range day will be cut short because some part broke, and we’ll have to go home until we get a replacement.
With that said, I just got done with a 3-day Pat Rogers class, and I spent far too much time standing around while we un-f@cked someone ELSE’s sub-standard firearm/magazine/optic/ammo issue. I generally couldn’t care less what kind of gun someone else shoots, but it amazed me at how many people showed up to this class with truly sub-standard gear, and it frustrated me to find that their gear selection affected my training experience.
I work on RRA rifles on an almost a daily basis at work (as we sell a lot of them). Most of the work is customizing and not functioning repair.
My two biggest complaints about RRA ARs is that their gas keys are staked like sh** (already mentioned here) and that they use about a 1/2 bottle of blue Loc-Tite between their carbine receiver extensions and lower receivers.
Proper assembly doesn’t require Loc-Tite to secure a receiver extension. Torque and staking works just fine as directed in the US Military Techincal Manual, few companies properly assemble ARs by following these guidelines.
Rob S - Every class I’ve been to has the same problems. The best solution I’ve seen is at Blackwater. The student gets a loaner and the junk gun is sent to the armory for repair. Class keeps right on rolling. 15-20 guys shouldn’t stand around with their thumb up their ass because someone else wasn’t prepared for class. We always take spare everythings, so we can keep on blasting. Last trip to Blackwater, 4 of my guns were on the line all week. None had a malf of any kind. I think I’ve figured out how to keep 'em running. 2 of the carbines were assembled by me, 2 were M16’s slightly re-worked by me. Staked keys, lots of lube, good mags, Federal ammo, every attachment option loc-tited/staked. Best Xmas present I got was the high-dollar, high speed staking tool, so I don’t have to steal GotM4’s anymore!
LOL, you know me…
C4
There are two issues here. First is poor craftsmanship. The second is a reliability issue. People should get what they pay for (which is properly staked carrier keys and non-dremeled feed ramps). This isn’t rocket science here.
I am a civy that will NEVER settle for “almost as good as.” Reason? My and my families life matter more than that. It is ALWAYS better to have the best and never need it.
C4
Agree. Who ever thought it is a good idea to loctite (sometimes with red) the RE in??? That is the cheap way out (again) and just makes changing the part out a nightmare.
C4
Until the day I die, I will never understand why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp. I guess this is an area, again, where I see people (generally speaking) use that word I hate, in regards to whats right for me and what I’ll do with my weapons.
Sparrow will likely recall a Colt M4A1 (well that time I think a LE6921 lower on a RO921HB upper) of mine becoming a single shot bolt action at the 500m - due to a factory Colt bolt carrier shitting the bed with the gas key.
Shit happens with the best – I’ve seen factory Diemaco and Colt bolts snap screws and pop the key despite being flawlessly staked – the bolt just failed.
However if I spend my hard (well okay not hard, but I think that the American tax payer that pays my salary should get his money worth 
) earned money on weapons and ammo, I refuse to be short changed.
Your comments echo, my comments about using high quality carrier key bolts (as the cheap ones can break). Or if you need to replace the carrier key, you cannot as the staking has caved in the key bolts so you cannot remove them and have to scrap the entire carrier.
C4
Actually, the ARE getting what they pay for. They paid less and they got less.
I am a civy that will NEVER settle for “almost as good as.” Reason? My and my families life matter more than that. It is ALWAYS better to have the best and never need it.
That is because YOU think that you’ll use your carbine to defend yourself and/or your family. The VAST majority of shooters are not in the same boat and do NOT view their AR15 carbine as anything more than just a toy. For them, “almost as good” is MORE than good enough, and they are willing to sacrifice quality for a lower cost.
In Pat’s defense, he did loan out several rifles to people with problems. I was never asked but I gladly would have done the same. Somehow these things still become an issue.
I think the best solution is to have an equipment check at the start of the class, and properly stake keys that aren’t, lube guns that aren’t, and address any other easily-fixed yet oft-recurring problems.
Blaster- Every gun that went down at the FL class Rob refrenced- and every other class that i have taught, received one of my guns or that of my AI if the problem could not be rectified with immediate action.
We prefer to have the student get the gun running with immediate action to reinforce crtical skill sets (for obvious reasons). If that won’t work, use mine until the downed gun is working.
In one year i have had over 8k rounds go downrange through my guns in students hands.
Rob S- The FL class had less gun issues than most classes. However, any gun can go down at any time.
The key here is to by something viable from the start, and maintain it as you use it. You seem to have that figured out…
While Steve is right that most people don’t shoot enough for most issues to be a problem, my experiences over the past 20 years or so are that a lot of those just as good as guns seem to find there way to class where they take a gigantic dump in front of all to see.
Bring a spare gun. Make sure that both are well maintained. Change critical parts at regular schedules.
And please stop buying crappy guns, crappy sights, crappy magazines and crappy ammo.
I don’t think they got what they paid for. I can build and sell a RRA type AR for the same money and do everything right. Paying $800 + dollars won’t get you a tier one AR, but SHOULD get you one that doesn’t look like a monkey tried to F*ck it!
Every single person that owns a firearm believes in the back of their mind that they MIGHT have to use it someday to protect themselves. I have never met and or heard anyone say otherwise.
They MIGHT not choose the AR as their primary weapon, but it is a back up for sure. This is the reason why “good enough” should NEVER fly.
C4
Bring a spare gun. Make sure that both are well maintained. Change critical parts at regular schedules.
And please stop buying crappy guns, crappy sights, crappy magazines and crappy ammo.
AMEN BROTHER!
C4
Maybe so, but nobody knows who you are, and at the end of the day the vast majority of people don’t care if the key is staked properly or if the feed ramps are dremeled. I had a whole debate with a guy on another board that asked for opinions about the S&W M&P rifle. I suggested that he save $200 and buy the Stag (which is what the M&P is) instead, to which he replied that he’d rather have the S&W name. There really is no convincing some people.
Every single person that owns a firearm believes in the back of their mind that they MIGHT have to use it someday to protect themselves. I have never met and or heard anyone say otherwise.
They MIGHT not choose the AR as their primary weapon, but it is a back up for sure. This is the reason why “good enough” should NEVER fly.
Then you haven’t had your storefront for long enough. I worked for 3 years in a gunshop that ONLY sold “assault rifles” and handguns, and the vast majority of our customers bought them as a toy. Yes, it may be in the back of every gunowner’s mind that some day civilization will crumble and they’ll need (sorry Hawkeye) their AR15, their 200 mags, and their 10,000 rounds of stockpiled ammo to eek out an existance in the wastelands, but they still bought the gun as a toy.
No offence to anyone but this thread reminds me of AF.com.
Back on topic…I can’t figure out why RRA would choose to dremel the feed ramps. That is beyond me?
I own two Stag AR’s one rifle and one 16" carabine and they have beed very reliable. They are 4140 steel, rifle feed ramps and 1/9:cool: barrels. They still hit what I point them at.
I also own 14.5" and 10.5" LMT uppers:D
I think enough people know who I am and with some education, I could move a lot of them. People often pay for a name, but there are people that look past a name and recognize quality.
People MAY buy their AR for the sole purpose of shooting cans, but they KNOW that if it did hit the fan, they have an AR available. This is the road that I want people walk down (or at least acknowledge). They are most likely NEVER going to use their AR in combat, but if the need arises, they have a weapon that is built for such purposes.
C4