A customer came into my shop today with his RRA AR. He wanted a Crane O-ring installed and some other items. So we took apart his AR and I found some VERY poor workmanship in it. As we all know, RRA dremel tools in their feed ramps. Well these were the worst I have seen. One is longer than the other and almost goes to the bottom of the receiver. :rolleyes:
To make matters worse, the carrier was staked, but the metal NEVER even touched the carrier key bolts! What good does that do?? It was so bad, that I had to grab my camera for some evidence.
I am always amazed what some AR manufacturers get away with. If I had done this to an AR, my name would be up in lights as the worst AR builder in the world.
Do the tier 2-3-Sh** manufacturers really save that much money by doing things that poorly? For Pete’s sake don’t put in M4 ramps if you are going to do them wrong, most folks don’t need them, and they make the gun look cheep. In other words, skip the ramp stage entirely. You will save even more money than putting them in wrong.
Why take the time to stake a carrier wrong? If you are going to have the tooling to stake, adjust it so the shit works right. May cost a couple dollars to set right, but you do not have the buyers going to an AR pro and getting looks of pity for having bought a gun rag approved piece.
I realize everyone on the .net is a professional gunfighter, who pushes their “weapons” to extremes in preperation for the ultimate show down, but get over it.
I don’t agree with what RRA does with a dremmel, no matter how nice/evenly they do it. It shouldn’t be done, it’s not necessary, and doesn’t help anything. On the other side of the coin, it’s not going to hurt anything either, no matter how bad it looks.
The carrier doesn’t seem to be staked as well as some, but I’d be willing to bet it would have held for a lifetime of semi auto use.
Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Some poor kid whose carbine has been running flawlessly is going to see these pics and think something is actually wrong with his carbine and stay up all night worrying he isn’t prepared for the zombies!
I here ya Steve. It isn’t so much that M4 cuts are a must have, but simply about poor fit/finish of their weapons. We all know that M4 upper receivers are the same price as A3 upper receivers. So I just cannot understand why they dremel tool in cuts. The improperly staked carrier key can lead to a malfunction which could cost someone.
I think if you spend over $800 for an AR, you should at least get some form of quality.
The M4 cuts are not needed (especially on semi). So I agree. Why spend the time with Mr. Dremel and make the weapon look like a monkey trying to F*ck a football???
They also took the time to stake the carrier key, but missed the mark totally. It also appears that they might have used the wrong size bolts in the carrier key as there were large gaps between the bolt heads and walls of the key.
The biggest problem, is that people are not educated enough to know what is wrong with the above pics and just accept it as “the way it is.”
I own a RRA with the dremelled ramps and it has fed virtually everything reliably (Wolf, 55 gr. M193, 62 gr. C77, SS109). Now, about the carrier key, mine seems to be similar, is this correct?:
That is some CRAPPY workmanship, no two ways about it…
I don’t care if my AR sits in a safe for decades, untouched, but if I PAY GOOD MONEY for a product, I darn well expect it to be done right. Those ramps and stakes are just WRONG and will not cut RRA any slack in it.
I’m surprised that Bigbore, well known for his quality workmanship, would defend such poor fit & finish. This is RRA after all, the DEA choice, right… not CENTURY, which is well known for monkeys with grinders…
Stag does not offer M4 barrel extensions or M4 recievers. They did do a limited edition AR awhile back that had them, but that was it.
Your dremel cuts look better than the one I saw today, the question still remains as to why RRA does it at all?
It is hard to see your staking, but you should be able to see the metal touch the carrier key bolts. If it does not, then your staking job is not correct.
There isn’t a right or wrong way to stake a carrier key. There’s good enough and not good enough.
I’ve mentioned questionable carrier keys to RRA before, and I’ll be sure to send them this link.
If you have a carrier key that looks like that, I wouldnt worry about it. If you have a punch and a hammer, give them a hit if it makes you feel better.
I think ANY dremmel job that removed anodizing is bullshit, I’m not defending that practice. I sell a half million dollars worth of RRA rifles a year, and I can count the number of complaints I’ve received on 1 hand.
IMO, the big deal here, isnt a big deal.
I may be new to the AR but those stake marks look like they were machined into the bolt carrier when it was milled and not “stamp” or hand punched like I see on my Bushmaster with a hammer.
Must have been a different brand, I had no idea Stag didn’t cut ramps into their receiver extensions, I assumed it after all the praise Stag is getting for being pretty close to “spec”. I’m guessing RRA dremels their uppers to improve compatibility with different types of ammunition, it certainly does not hurt their feeding capability.
Stag does not follow the TDP in many ways. They also do not properly stake their carrier keys (which I have told them about).
The M4 cuts were designed to help with FA fire (not semi). With that said, I like to have them as I typically shoot 75 or 77gr ammo. This is not important with 1/9 twist barrels.
Giving the AR a better chance to feed a round is NEVER a bad thing so I would ALWAYS rather have M4 cuts then not.
My key was staked (barely) but it did last 8k. From that point on I staked my own keys and I realized the importance of paying attention to the little things.
A properly done set of M4 ramps gives a warm feeling that one lthing that could go wrong, is now less likely to. The Dremel cuts are the problem,restate; the inconsistencies I have seen with various pics of the Dremel cuts is what worries me. If RRA, et al had a jig that repeated a reasonable fascimile of a M4 cut on every gun I would not have ranted. Sadly, my experiences have been that they are not consistent.
RRA makes a nice gun, which as Bigbore states is all that most are looking for. Something to take to the range once every couple months and burn a couple mags a piece amonst friends and maybe shoot some critters. RRA needs to fix just a few small things to move up to the nice weapon standard, which is how the professionals on the board judge things ( I am not a pro, I am a gear junky who likes to shoot, but knows fine workmanship)
