Allowing the internet to make decisions for you is a piss poor way to buy firearms and equipment.
The hive mind might make selections that just dont work for you, period
Plus, what happens when there is a new flavor of the week, are you going to change all your gear to keep up with the Jones’
Me, I’ve opted to stick with my Glocks, ARMS mounts, Eotechs and USGI mags. I’m content not to be cool, but at least I got what works for me.
Oh I know it’s true that Police Officers even though we see ourselves as sheepdogs tend to be more like sheep when it comes to equipment, we see something shiny and new and just cant live without it. My Agency is slowly transitioning from the 92D to the SIG 229 R DAK, We are already hearing complaints about issuing a railed gun without a weapon light, Somewhat justified but it would just be more weight on our pistol belts as we will still have to carry a stinger. We also have a lot of Officers who want to get away from the PR24 and go to the MEB/ASPand issue at least 1 Tazer per shift and Patrol carbines but the Federal Govt other than the FBI/DEA/ATF moves a lot slower than the Public side so we make do with what we have and hope for the best. It has kind of tempered my lemming mentality at work, I still buy guns all the time just to try something new or highly recomended but always find myself going back to either a Beretta 92 or 1911 when I’m going to be spending a day shooting or posibly going into harms way. They are what I know, train with and trust.
I’m issued a G22 at work. I am shooting my M&P 40 more and more on my own time.
Lot of good points made, especially on what constitutes better.
I’ve also argued against the 1911 on this forum, just so we are tracking on that.
I took the OP as to be implying that everyone that carries a 1911, does so because of the “hype”, advertising, cool guy factor, etc etc. I’m sure some do, just as many proclaim they shoot best with a 1911, when they really mean they shoot less bad.
IF you work for an organization that makes decisions based on the above criteria, you really need to re think your employment, or do the right thing, and campaign for common sense, show people the research, facts, etc etc.
I’ve worked at 3 different facilities that attempted a uniform change, and in all 3 cases it came down to popularity, it looks cool, or I want to or don’t want to look like XXXX. The only thing I could do was champion my cause, by explaining the benefits, and show them the research, etc and hopefully MULTICAM will prevail:D
Again, its the reverse elitism that goes around. Now some how its cool to have a cheap 1911, no light, a so called KISS carbine etc etc. Then proclaim the rest of us are just living out some sorta fantasy for having high end guns and equipment.
I agree many follow the Jones, but if something truly better come along, and I can afford it, I’m moving on. To me, its better then some of the old, fat, bald, has beens/never was that continue to cling to out dated weapons, equipment and TTP’s.
As for 1911’s and LAV, take one of his 1911 classes, you’ll learn a lot about cheap 1911’s, expensive 1911’s, and what he thinks about them in general.
Bob
Sorry;)
I won’t drink the M&P 9 koolaid!
Seriouly, I started shooting pistols with a series 70, would up going to USPSA Nationals, shooting an Officers Model…and didn’t finish last. Sold it when I got hired and carried a 659, then a SIGMA…and longed for a Glock. Got to carry Glocks for the last 11 years in either .40 or .45. The more I shot them, the more I didn’t like shooting them wanted to go back to a 1911…because I could shoot them easier / better / faster / more accurately.
1911’s are not for everyone, to be sure. And, you shouldn’t want one because someone else says so or the Cool Guy Factor. If you don’t see demonstrable improvements in abilities shooting one, then they just aren’t worth it. However, my “sphere of influence” is greatly expanded by a good 1911.
Additionally, “mission drives the gear selection” is it. I usually work in teams, even if its just two, in a covert - proactive leo setting, so a single stack 1911 will get me back to the rifle (if its not already out) or through most things that typically happen out here in my mission. If I worked in Badghad, or LA, or in uniform, or something like that, just might carry a hi cap 9…preferably in M&P flavor.
Awesome.
So someone must have been DQ’d, is what I’m assuming. 
Do tell…
I have seen all manner of folks at the range trying to make their 1911’s into some magical lightning bolt dispenser. Over the years I have seen some of the best shooting and some of the worst shooting with 1911’s. Up until the last few years I pretty much was stuck on 1911’s (38 super & 45) and wouldn’t seriously consider anything else. However after putting thousands of rounds downrange I have come to rely on the M&P series and has pretty much replaced the 1911 as my day to day carry piece.
Why I like my job, most of the people I work with, And most of the People we Police. Management Is willing but OSLE works at their own pace and as younger people take over the reigns of power things are changing. Our training has improved to the point that it is probably at least equal to if not better than all of the local departments. Our equipment is lagging a bit behind the times but catching up slowly.
His gun must not have fit in the box with those damn crimson trace grips on them.
Understood, been there, and to some extent still am, the best you can do, is present the facts, research, etc. to support your position, and hope that wins over the liberal/democrat way of arguing IE: Don’t confuse the issue with facts, my mind is made up…
I think we could take the OP, substitute 1911 with just about any name brand and it would be the same thing.
You should see the “discussions” I’ve had over the Glock not being “Perfect”, and I like Glocks, but they are far from perfection.
Whether the argument is 1911 vs. Glock, 9 vs 45, AR vs AK, Aimpoint vs EoTech, etc etc the smart thing to do, is listen to what verifiable SME have to say. people like Pat Rogers, Hilton Yam, Paul Howe, Jim Smith, and yes, Larry Vickers and Ken Hackathorn, have a wealth of experience and knowledge, and it would be foolish to not listen to them. Put what they have to say into context, weigh it against your situation, and “find your own salvation”.
Bob
OUCH!
This treading perilously close to “Glock vs. 1911” territory…
Peer pressure?
What happened to METT-T and documented performance? If you have the option, pick the one you shoot best.
Which do you kill with faster?
I don’t care what it says on the side or how big the hole in the end is – if the mission is to eliminate the threat as fast as possible go with the tool that performs for you.
Arguing about guns is like arguing about lipstick color. Unless you are directed by agency policy to shoot an issue gun use the one that helps you meet your mission – otherwise you’re going to screw the pooch, shoot late, shoot last, and possibly end up with holes in you or someone else on the “Blue” side.
Being fashionable is stupid. If you’ve drawn the handgun it’s because your long gun stopped working and you need to smash the bad guy’s electrics or let the air out of him NOW.
If you shoot a particular pistol “better” than your current duty pistol (1911), then there isnt really any good reason other than “peer pressure” for you to carry the 1911.
I would not discount the utility of having a light mounted on your pistol though. You could always compromise, and get a newer 226R, or a M&P9, or other rail framed pistol to replace your 1911.
I have long since gotten over the “Man’s caliber .45 vs. Womens caliber 9mm” circle jerk that most of us in the LE profession get involved in.
Pistol peer pressure. Good post and an interesting observation. Some cops are shooters. Some arent. I have several co workers that dont even own off duty guns. They are at one extreme. The guns of the month guys are at the other extreme.
I am issued a non railed P220. I have grown to like it. The thought of not carrying my Gunsite Govmnt .45 made me want to hyperventilate when I started as a cop. Given a choice, I would now stick with my P220, maybe my P228.
One of my main reasons for not carrying a light or laser on my gun is bulk. I don’t see me being in a situation where a either one is going to improve my shooting AND I don’t care what Hackathorn carries on his gun. If he needs or wants one then more power to him. (I await the BLASPHEMY! post)
I am NOT condoning the 1911, I was only stating what works for ME. I am not going to something else because of peer pressure. Mine has never shot magical lightning bolts but it has healed leprosy.
I agree with the original poster in this thread. People base purchases and add all kinds of stuff to their guns and eqpt because of peer pressure or they saw it on the Internet, read it in a magazine, or someone told them that they didn’t meet a spec. A gun, laser, light, or a bijillion round magazine doesn’t make you a good shooter. Get a good gun, buy lots of ammo, get training, and practice often.
I hate to admit it but I fall way closer to the gun of the month guy than the middle of the road average cop. I’ve been fascinated with them since I was a kid and the fascination has turned into an addiction. My MMPI test results did show an addictive personality so I guess guns beat crack.
That’s what I was trying to say, but he did better.
And, thank God we live in the best country in the world, where we have such a selection of finest in personal protection sidearms that no one should be left wanting…if it weren’t for restrictive department policies, but that’s another thread.
A few immediate thoughts come to mind upon reading this:
[ul][li] How much formal training do you have on operating a pistol-mounted light and pistol-mounted laser?
[/li][li] How much personal training time and experience do you have operating a pistol-mounted light and pistol-mounted laser?
[/li][li] Do you know why Ken Hackathorn (no “e” at the end) advocates what he does? Do you even know what Ken advocates?
[/li][*] Plenty of people have won gunfights without a light or laser. But an awful lot of guys who’ve won gunfights seem to like lights and lasers … they just might have a reason for that.[/ul]
Sometimes we take this all a little too seriously… There is no “one size fits all” when it comes to weapons for men.
If we really looked at the reality based on facts and probabilities, we would probably spend more time working on our retirement funds than training with guns, but I LIKE guns, and while ANY serviceable pistol will do in a gun fight, I LIKE my 1911s!
What messes with most people is that I own exactly the same number of 9mm Glocks as I own .45 1911s. There is no real world difference between me drawing from concealment and hitting a target from 2-25 yards with either a Glock 19 or a Colt 1911. I shoot both as badly as each other, but I just prefer my 1911s.
I am always fascinated by people that want to impose their preferences on others, this, “If I like a Glock with a light, then you can’t like a 1911 without one” stuff is nonsense. I think it is because people become emotionally invested in their decisions and then need to justify and validate those decisions frequently to maintain their confidence in those decisions.
When I really thought about it, I suppose my 1911 is like my wife, while all women have vaginas, only my wife made it worth putting up with all the other bullshit that comes with it using it. For me the 1911 is the same, it might take a little extra attention but the aesthetics more than make up for the cost.
Does that make any sense?