Pistol Peer Pressure

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
1

This is a repost of a something I wrote on another forum. I got some interesting responses and it is something I’ve been restling over recently. Thought I’d post it over here to see what you all think.

Pistol Peer Pressure

Had a conversation with a couple of co-workers the other night at work. The two guys I was talking to are both members of our department SWAT team and I’m a patrol rifleman who will probably join the team in the next couple years so we’re all avid gun guys. All three of us currently carry high-dollar 1911’s at work (I have an Action Works Colt…they have Wilsons).

We were discussing our pistol selection and how complex pistol choices have become. We were reminiscing on the days when at our department you pretty much carried an issued S&W 5906, a Beretta 92, a Sig 226/228 or a Glock 17. The H&K USP eventually got thrown in there, but the aforementioned pistols were pretty much it. You either carried it in a Safariland 070 or if you were more daring a 6280. No lights, no fancy grips and crap, just plain simple guns.

So why can’t we go back to that? We all still have our stamped-steel slide 226 9mm’s sitting in our safes or in the back of our lockers. Why don’t we just say screw it and return to simplicity? In reality, all three of us agreed we were happier with the 226 and would go back to it in a heartbeat. So why not? The simple answer: PEER PRESSURE. The amount of crap we’d take for abandoning 1911’s with lights mounted to go back to the simple rail-less 226 in the diminutive 9mm round.

We pretty much decided that in the last few years we’ve been force fed by the gun companies, the magazines and by our buddies that our guns have to be “tactical” with lights and that JMB’s design when massaged over by guys with name like Yost, Les, Bill or the uber tactical Nighthawk are the pinnacle of perfection and what we should all strive for and that it somehow adds inches to your manhood. Well, I guess I’ve reached it. I hate to break it to you all, but I carry one of those and it ain’t any more special than carrying a Sig 220…same amount of rounds and they both put holes in the target the same way…be it paper or a person. They’re just heavier and more expensive and you’ll cry when it gets scratched.

1911’s are great combat weapons, both the original Colts, Singers and Remington-Rands, etc as well as the modern examples. Picking up a Nighthawk vs. a Springfield Loaded and you can see where the extra money goes. However, when it really comes down to it, I don’t feel I really shoot one of these any better than I do my old 226 or my friend’s ten year old 220.

The point I’m making is not meant to be a 1911 vs. Sig vs. Glock vs. (Insert X here)…it is not meant to be a 9mm vs. 40 S&W vs. 45 ACP argument either…My point is that we often let others…be they co-workers, instructors or guys in a gun magazine…dictate our firearms choice and what we choose to carry. Yes, Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers know stuff, but so do plenty of other countless people that aren’t so famous that choose to carry different guns. My point is that firearms selection should be a personal choice and that we face pistol peer pressure.

I haven’t decided to dump my 1911…yet. I’m just having deep thoughts here and thinking about how much we have complicated such a simple subject. I’ve been on the quest for the perfect carry gun for years. I personally think I found it years ago and that it wore a K-Kote finish and these funny looking eagle stamps on the bottom of the slide and side of the frame. I should have stuck with it and have been chasing my tail ever since.

We all have to face pistol peer pressure. I say screw it!

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My first pistol out of the academy was a Glock 17. After switching to the Glock 22, I decided I wasn’t happy with it and I tried out a high dollar 1911.

The 1911 is a fantastic gun, and a pleasure to shoot, but after six months I switched back to a Glock 17. The 1911 was heavier, it took more time and effort to keep it in great shape, and I didn’t want to worry about it getting rained on or scratched while I was wrestling some guy on the ground!

For me, the Glock is the ideal patrol officer gun.

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I get teased for shooting my short barreled carry guns at the local matches (was Subcompact Glocks and now Compact S&W M&Ps). Guys think I can improve my score with a longer barrel.

Maybe they are right but I always tell them that I shoot what I carry. I have pistols that I don’t carry such as a .44mag or .22lr but I don’t take them to a IDPA or USPSA match because when I am shooting a match I want to be practicing my defensive skills rather than trying to win the match.

I don’t have any problem with someone who wants to win and who brings the weapon they feel gives them the best chance. I however am seeking to improve my chances of staying alive or keeping my loved ones safe. That is my priority and is why I switched from Glocks to M&Ps; because I shoot the M&Ps better.

Lots of folks don’t learn in high school that following the crowd or letting keeping others happy so they don’t tease you will never allow you to make the best choices for yourself.

I was the only guy in my school who wore boots and worked horses everyday. I got laughed at for being bowlegged but the truth was that several of the hockey players were more bowlegged than me.

I stayed true to myself and made a career of horse training for a number of years. Many spend their whole lives following the herd and then wonder why they aren’t happy…

It is easy to get caught up in trends, I sometimes miss the Glocks as they are stupid simple to work on, but I made a choice that I would make again today.

Buckaroo

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I’ve been a 1911 guy since MP School in 86 but dont mind being mandated to carry the Dept issue Beretta 92 D. Hell it’s there gun if it gets damaged They pay for the repair or replacement, I shoot it well and it’s dead reliable. Off duty I get my 1911 fix and am happy.

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I shot a 1911 for along time, since I was taught to shoot it by the original armorer mentioned in Col. Beckwith’s book. Back then, and up until recently is was the optimal choice. Not so much today.
I have decided to move on, more or less.

What I don’t like to see is the sorta reverse elitism that starts to permeate some venues. While not long ago, the attitude you describe may have been prevalent, you now are seeing a lot of the opposite. That some how a high dollar 1911, with a light no less, is the sign of the uninitiated, or “sheep”. Same goes for AR’s, and their accessories.

You and your fellow officers may have been led to believe something and feel like you’ve been duped, but if your implying that everyone that carries a 1911, does so because of the back cover of Guns and Ammo, I’d say your wrong.

And, like I said my 1911’s are in the drawer with my Ray Ban aviators and Seiko watch.

Bob

ETA: alot of shooters have “drunk the kool-aid” of the other brands you mention also.

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As usual, Bob is on it on all counts. Great post!

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There is something to be said about simplicity. I don’t have a light or laser on any of my guns, but I don’t have an issue with those that do.

I am not a “professional” but I do have a carry permit. My gun of choice is a 5" 1911, most of the time I carry a 4.25", and sometimes a Kahr which is very simple.

I have owned or own Sigs, 3rd gen S&W’s, a Taurus PT99 (Beretta clone) and I don’t find the 1911 to be complex at all. I also don’t believe that you have to have a 1911 built by Wilson, Nighthawk, etc. to get one that runs good. Sure, they build a gun with good parts and an unbelievable fit and finish, but there are lower priced 1911’s that I would have no issue carrying.

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Bob,

What do you carry now?

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My work gun is a department issue Glock 22. If I had a choice I would carry…the Glock 22. If .45’s were issued then a M&P or XD. Small hands ya know.
I am comfortable with it and accurate. I would love the option to carry a 1911 but truth be told, if I could I would still probably carry the G 22. More bullets and built to handle abuse with little care and cuddling. However, I would love to have the 1911 option for my SWAT gear.
Dave

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Lights and lasers are being discussed almost as a fashion option…they are anything but.

There is no easier way to use a handgun under stress than with a mounted light and a laser. The accuracy and effectiveness of most who use them increases significantly…which can make the difference between life and death.

Does that mean that guns without those accessories are useless or bad? Absolutely not…nevertheless, the advantages are significant and real.

Were I suiting up to go patrol tonight, I’d want a reliable handgun with a reliable mounted light and a good laser solution on my hip. Peer pressure has nothing to do with it. Trying to use weapons without those options in low light and then using weapons with those options in low light made me a believer. Since Ken’s name has been invoked, he used to be a critic of lasers. Then he ran one…and the kool-aid tasted pretty good.

As to the 1911:

Are they a bit “trendy”? Sure. Many people carrying one have no idea why they are carrying one. Some, however, do know. To quote Larry Vickers on weaponology, the 1911 is still incredibly popular amongst the armed professional “…primarily because of how easy they are to shoot.” It’s the easiest centerfire handgun for most people to shoot under stress. When it comes down to it, the point is to put a bullet exactly where it is needed exactly when you need to do it. The 1911 is the weapon many people (both highly experienced and relatively new to shooting) find to be best suited to allow them to do that.

Yes, there’s a bit of a cool dude factor with the choice of the 1911 by some…but at the core there is a very real basis that the cool guy aura was built on. Are there “better” options today? “Better” is a function of a lot of things, including expense and support of the platform. Other options on the market are perfectly adequate, hold more ammo, have fewer maintenance requirements, and cost a hell of a lot less.

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No, Bob. Say it isn’t so.

You were the one that I went to when I wanted to get back into 1911s.

Oh, the humanity:)

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Seems to me the OP has received a bit of hostility here. Undeserved, IMHO.

Dude came on here and admitted that he’d made some choices about his equipment based on internet hype and peer pressure. Anyone who thinks that is uncommon doesn’t deal with a lot of shooters (or agencies, or military units). I’ve sat in meetings with firearms units trying to deal with SWAT teams who clearly want a different gun, any different gun at all, than the regular line officers in their department … not because they need some other capability, but simply because they’re SWAT and thus they need to have something different for the sake of being different because they’re SWAT and SWAT has different guns because they’re … well, you get the idea.

A buddy of mine was recently issued a .40 cal pistol and while he knows he can shoot the 9mm variant a little better, and while he believes the 9mm is just as effective from a terminal performance standpoint, he’s hesitant to switch to the 9mm because of: peer pressure. He doesn’t want to look like the girly man.

I’ve brought large-caliber guns to LE training events in the past simply because “yeah, you can do that because you have a 9mm … we have to carry forties” got really, really old.

If you don’t think a lot of people have tremendous personal pride in their chosen sidearm, if you don’t think that many members of M4C are walking around with visions of Excalibur on their hips, then simply start a thread that titled “I think (brand X) sucks as a fighting gun” and watch the hair fly.

Personally, I read the OP’s message as a positive one. He’s realized that in the past he drank a little too much kool aid or was worried a little too much about how he looked rather than how he shot. Now he’s reassessing his equipment choices based on what works, which is what many people say but not many people do. I think it’s commendable, myself.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I need to go finish putting the gold filigree on my M&P9.

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There are several reasons I don’t have a light or laser on my gun, and fashion is not one of them. :slight_smile:

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Don’t worry Ed. Bob’s not abandoning his 1911 collection.(not yet, anyway) On the contrary, his point was not to roll with a 1911 “just cause”. If you can’t take advantage of it, it may not be the gun for you, and my not be worth the “head ache”.

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I’ve seen the same circumstances in the past in regards to SWAT and .45’s, in this case G21’s. I’ve also seen the mindset that upon having a 1911 in your hand makes you a better shooter.

I agree, I think he was making a point that he drank the kool-aid and chose a gun based on that vs. what would better suite his needs.

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I think Todd “gets” the point I’m trying to make.

I’m not bashing anyone’s decisions on what gun to carry and I’m not trying to advocate one platform over another.

The point I’m trying to make is that many of us often buy gear and carry things not because it works well for us but because we listen to the hype and peer pressure of others.

My department issues the M&P 40. Lots of you on this forum love this gun. I know I do. Only two people on my department’s SWAT team and other “tactical” oriented teams carry this gun. Why? Because it is what is issued and they just want to be different.

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By the way, I don’t mind a little heat from you guys. I posted this because I want to get people talking about it because I think it is an issue that people need to keep in mind when deciding what to carry.

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Sometimes I get funny looks when I use a revolver at an IDPA match. Since I mostly carry a J frame, I like to shoot with something at least similar on a regular basis.

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I bought a 1911 two years ago, after not having one for a long time. I bought a Kimber Warrior and found that I shot it better and more accurately than any of my other handguns. The Kimber was a problematical gun and is now gone; but I now own two relatively high grade 1911s.

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Correlation is not causation. :smiley: