For a belt gun, like a S&W M&P 2.0 for example, we expect a high level of reliability. Most of won’t accept a stoppage (light strike, failure to feed, etc.) Even every several hundred rounds. I have come to expect thousands of rounds without an issue. Oh sure, one or two kinds of ammo may be exluded. (Lehigh, or steel case, etc)
But should we really expect the same reliability from pocket guns? LCP’s & similar.
I ask because my backup / 2nd / pocket had a bad range day and it had been steller before.
I’m going to clean & lube it and take it back out with factory ammo and see if it will remain employed or get removed from duty.
But what’s “acceptable” from a pocket auto?200 rds trouble free, minimum comes to mind.
I’ll never forget a fellow student in a class I took years ago was showing his Kel Tec pocket gun. He proudly said. “It works most of time.” I thought what the f#$K?
The closest thing to a pocket gun I have is a 9mm shield. It’s 100% reliable, but I’m no fan of the caliber. To me, a sub duty caliber gun has to be perfect in function because low power rounds need more volume…. and that means the gun must run.
Unless you carry for duty I think it’s more important your pocket gun be the most or equally reliable.
I have a Khar PM9, I always thought it was good until I tried it freezing weather. It wouldn’t release the striker. Looked into it and it a thing. All done with that gun. Haven’t shot or used it since then.
Replaced it with a the slightly larger but still small Glock 43. It’s got Glock reliability.
Now between a duty size and pocket pistol, I do think it’s easier to make a full size gun more reliable. I don’t think this day in age we should accept a less reliable pocket pistol though. You don’t need too. When I bought that Khar PM9, the smallest glock was a 26. Times change.
Everything I’ve ever read or been told on shorter slide length/shorter slide travel pistols has at least hinted at a greater chance of somewhat lower reliability such as claims a 5” 1911 slightly > approximately 4.25” somewhat> Officer’s ACP.
Unless it was coming from a total goober, I’ve never seen that as accepting a severe lack of reliability, but it was considered as a cost vs. benefit to get a smaller, more concealable pistol.
That last part has always been the catch with sticking a full size gripped frame on a short slide because the grip is typically the hard part to conceal.
I don’t recall many malfunctions with the PM9 cycling itself, but dang near having to use the slide release to chamber the first round since sling shotting was just about guaranteed to cause a feed malfunction was an issue i overlooked for the miniature size.
Their magazines going back to the K9 frequently dumping at least a cartridge when carried was another negative I accepted until the 43 came out also.
I’ve come close to buying a Kahr a few times (despite the Moonie ownership). The “small = cheap = bad” smell still lingers around a lot of subcompacts though so I’ve stuck with my Officers ACP for the most part. I like the pony.
Never had luck with Kahrs specifically until I grabbed a T9. Full size, steel, MMC sights carried for years.
On the pocket gun same as everyone above should be 100% like all carry guns, but the amount of stuff in one’s pocket that gums up a pocket gun is quite amazing.
I had a P32 Keltec in a Nemesis sticky pocket holster for HOT HOT FL carry in swim trunks. Once a week I would take it apart to clean and found almost a tablespoon of sand, lint, hair and other junk everywhere inside it and around its seated mag. And the nemesis picked up it’s own crap along the week.
Moved from FL and haven’t carried since, won’t say it was 100% but don’t remember anything bad.
Kahr steel frame pistols seem to be very well made, almost over built(23 oz), except for the magazine dumping rounds issue they don’t seem to want to correct. The slide internals and functions are nearly identical to a Glock with the trigger system in the frame being very different.
I had an E9(econo version of a K9) that had a very smooth DA trigger and was soft shooting due to the weight. Think Glock 43 external dimensions with the same empty weight as a Glock 19.
Any carry gun needs to be reliable. If you have any “but” concerns for it, find something else. Too many good choices to accept “mostly reliable”. I’m surprised to hear your Kahr’s were not cutting it. I have a P45 that I don’t think has ever malfunctioned, Of course I clean it every outing and it hasn’t seen a high round count class. And not much sub-zero here in TX. Probably due to using an officers 1911 mag (the catch slot is just a hair lower) the only reason I retired it was I wanted a consistent trigger across all my pistols. It has a good trigger, just a VERY long press/reset. My lightweight carry was a Shield until I replaced it with a Shield Plus (optics cut and 13 rd mag). I can’t recall any non ammo failures on those either.
Test your ammo, I bought a pile of Norma and had failures often with those, Its weird when you press the trigger and just see puff of smoke above the chamber and no recoil. Found out that they forgot to drill the primer holes on some of it. Thought hang fire, but literally no way to ignite the powder. No more Norma for me.
Only about 80 rounds fired so far. I expected a break-in period. First few mags were fine, followed by some stoppages, and then 3 or 4 mags that fired fine. I know some of those malfs were my reloads.
I have extra mags for it, now. So, I’ll clean & lube it & see how the 2nd outing with it goes starting with factory ammo.
The problem with my reloads is the powder charge. Dropping 1.4 gr of powder even with a dipper consistently isn’t easy.
Been pocket carrying an LCP for well over decade. Never skipped a beat but I don’t fantasize about it being a combat pistol needing to reliably deliver 500rds down range during a shooting session. Every couple months I’ll take it to the club and shoot a half dozen magazines. Always shoot the same ammo as carried.
Small pocket guns fail due to the hands holding it more than anything else. If injured, shooting from an awkward position, wet hands… whatever… a full size gun will likely be more reliable. So… if you’re experiencing any issues during ideal range conditions ya might consider that it’s not going to get better in a high-stress defensive situation.
Prior to choosing a pocket gun I did a fair amount of online research (mostly forums) to read what folks were saying about reliability and ammo choice. I found the LCP was by far the favorite combined with Hornady CD. So… that’s the firearm and ammo I chose and have carried since.
After initial inspection and cleaning, I vetted the LCP and myself with 50rds Hornady CD. Both the LCP and I worked perfectly. Returned home for inspection and cleaning. Returned to the club and shot one magazine to ensure I cleaned and reassembled properly. Done. Since then I rinse and repeat every couple months as previously mentioned. This gives me the opportunity to confirm the LCP and I continue to be a reliable combination.