Well… I can say with all certainty that my LCP will never be required to operate for more than seven rounds in a defensive situation because that’s all I carry = 6+1.
Pocket guns need to be as reliable as a full sized gun. Closest guns that I have to a pocket gun are the HK CC9 and a Glock 43. Both super reliable.
3 Likes
Well, with that, you might be saying, “no small pocket autos are reliable.”
The only bad part about that for some is when they decide they don’t want to carry a bigger gun. And / or they don’t want to carry a cartridge less powerful than 9mm. I know a few of these guys. They don’t carry a gun at all. (LE guys, too) That’s definitely not the answer.
A pocket gun still meets the “have a gun” criteria. Or the “have a 2nd gun” criteria.
There must be a realm on the spectrum between “Unreliable junk” and say, a S&W Sheild 2.0 9mm.
1 Like
No. I didn’t say that.
There are small guns that are both pocketable and reliable. The two that I mentioned (G43 and CC9) are a good example. S&W and Ruger small revolvers are another example. There are a few others, but I am only mentioning the ones I have tested extensively.
A carry gun needs to be reliable for me to carry, IWB, pocket or whatever. That’s my point.
1 Like
A possible catch with a revolver in pants pocket is the cylinder is hard to hide versus mini auto pistols being “flat”. Whether that matters or not???
Another potential catch with pocket carry is all the crap that can get inside them and all that gunk is easier to access with most auto pistols.
A buddy carried a S&W 638 in an ankle holster for several years before he got curious what was behind the side plate and found it packed full of lint and other grime. He did it out of curiosity, not necessity, since it never locked up or got out of time so whether it mattered or not???
That’s probably not an issue except if the 21 is .22lr and .22 rimfire pistol reliability is almost always going to be an ammo related roll of the dice.
I have heard various claims the mini Beretta’s and Kahr PM9 can have fairly short service lives. I would assume any small pistol(usually smaller parts) could, or will, have parts break with less use than an equal quality larger pistol with parts of larger mass.
My Beretta’s and new Seecamp are .25’s.
I’ve put a 150 rds through the M21a in a range session without a stoppage. And about 100 a few times. I’ve changed the recoil springs before, too.
This most recent range trip it had some issues. I think it had been too long since it’s last clean & lube. A few months. I was shooting other ones to keep it from getting dirty & having to clean it. But they collect a grit in pocket (Kydex holster) and dry out.
For this particular model I’m going to go with 50 rds, no stoppages, after up to 2 months after a simple clean / lube. Mag included.
Same for the Seecamp. (Which i haven’t carried yet, not tested enough.)
1 Like
I share your intolerance for unreliable carry guns. That said, I don’t find value in testing reliability well beyond the expected use. LCP isn’t battle-worthy and quite frankly neither am I. I view it as 6+1 bad breath distance get-off-me. I don’t require hundreds of rounds per shooting session in ongoing reliability testing.
What’s unreliable? A single malfunction would have me questioning both the LCP and myself. I’ll tackle the remedy if/when that occurs.
If I am carrying for SD then it better be 100% reliable no matter the size. My smallest carry gun is a G43 and for 30 years prior to that my smallest one was a S&W940. But I rarely stick a gun in my pocket.
I’m thinking 50.
A gun that had a 20% chance of malfunctioning with every shot might win those odds 7 times in a row. 
But those are terrible odds when you need it to work.
Oh, i wish someone made a double-action revolver about 25% smaller than a J-frame 6-shot .25 or .22 mag with a 2.5- 3" barrel. Under 15 oz loaded.
Like, a little bigger than an NAA Mini revolver and double-action..
1 Like
After reading this I think we might all want both a reliable and small/light weapon.
I’m begining to believe you can have two out of the three, but not three out of three, Reliable and small, but light seems to be the stickler.
And how does Light relate to reliablity?
Well, light pistols are probably more prone to a limp-wrist malfunction.
Light revolvers in more powerful cartridges more likey to wear out sooner & pull bullets but this thread is more about pocket autos.
I agree the smaller the auto the less reliable they seem to be. I’m okay with reducing cartridge size to gain reliability/shootability.
1 Like
This was the first real auto reliable pocket pistol.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_Model_1903_Pocket_Hammerless
Notice the weight is like 24 oz. I believe there’s a reason for that.
I believe if you give the designer a weight limit right off the bat, you get a light pistol.if you ask for reliable you get reliable pistol, if you ask for a small pistol you get a small pistol
You can even get small and reliable pistols, but “Light” reliable pistols don’t happen very often because relaibility requires weight.
2 Likes
It relates more to the reliability of the hands holding it.
It also speaks to the composition of the smaller parts, small stamped parts will weigh much less that tooled steel parts.
I’m thinking what were are seeing is a mis-prioritization when it comes to both design and construction.
1 Like
I used to have a Beretta 21A[?] It was one of their tip up barrel pistols in 22LR. With jacketed high velocity ammo it ran 100%. After I discovered that HV ammo was all it got.
Currently my lightweight carry is a SIG P-230 in .380ACP. It’s a Walther PP sized gun, it can can put it in a pocket but it’s better in a holster. Straight blow back operation and hammer fired it’s been 100% reliable even with Maxx .380 which I was told was known for unreliable ignition in striker fired guns.
It’s also large enough to shoot well and I like the inherently safe DA/SA with decocker action for appendix carry. I have tried SIG branded .380 HP with 100% success and that’s what I carry. I’m looking for some Buffalo Bore flat nose lead solids.
4in barrel,1.2in wide 24oz gun… I’ve got one of those. It’s called a Glop19.
As a pocket gun, the 1903 would be 100% unreliable 100% of the time because it would be busy holding down the safe instead of in my pocket.
I like SMALL pocket guns.
IMO a 16+ ounce 4.5 in tall gun is too big & heavy for a pocket unless you’re just shuffling around at home.
S&W 432/642 are better shaped for exiting the pocket and are completely reliable.
1 Like
Compared to larger auto’s like G43’s, S&W Bodyguard 2.0 & such you’re absolutely right.
I recall a family member said he was carrying a Bersa .380 in his pocket. Shirts looked a little snug for it.
I said, “seems like it fits okay. Let’s see how long it takes to draw and point at that wooden chest. One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three…”
Yea, it was nearly 3 seconds just to draw, not even aim & fire. Way too slow.
This is just an anecdote. I have a shot timer & know how long it takes me to draw from the belt or pocket.
That family member normally carries an LCP now, (No belt gun) and an empty chamber. He prays hard, though. 
2 Likes