LMT vs LWRC

Thx Iraqgunz for checking my grammar, I still stand by what I said but dont take me out of context either. I would not take a RRA over a colt. I more then clearly stated that during a side by side test the RRA shot more accurately then the colt. As for the HK416 it is heavy and unbalanced, this I dont like. But if I were to be separated from my unit were it meant my survival traveling thru mud, water, I had nothing else then ammo…no oil. I would carry an HK416 anyday over an M4. It will withstand the elements and require less maintenance. You didnt watch the video yet you should. A rifle designed for warfare needs to function without much maintenance and limited cleaning/oil, hence the AKs success. If a part breaks in battle it doesnt matter if you can get one later…what matters is now. No one with a functioning rifle is going to give you parts from theirs!! I hate the parts arguement for in the field of battle a rifle needs to never break. But they do and they have. Water in a gas tube, dust in a BCG, broken springs, extractors, etc. Thats not to say The HK or scar haven’t had their teething issues as well but issues that have not caused the life of as many soldiers as the M16 has.

Taping the muzzle…dont even get me started. This does not happen in the field.

As for Vietnam, it happened whether you blame it on ammo, the “original design” which had no forward assist on the “Mattel gun” or not it happened during use of that rifle…period! No chrome lined anything…Magazines issues…the list goes on but many issues on that list still happen today. My point is it was released without being field tested! They didnt issues the much dependant cleaning kit. But more so when the rifle jammed (not always) it has to be cracked open. Same can be said with the ammo but it doesnt bring those men back who died as a result of that combination but they were issued them and were found next to them in a state of in-operation! There were 2 years of this before they improved on the M16. How do I know this from my father-in-law. He described this in detail and knew of it also considering he wasnt issued a cleaning kit till later. But its not just him saying this:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,843858,00.htm

I made it clear that we have had 40 years to know pretty much exactly what will cause an M16/M4 to fail. It has had numerous revisions. We know what parts will fail and when, how to maintain it…etc. What elements it can fight successfully in and what it cant. We do not clearly know this about the current crop of piston rifle out there. Some have fended better then other but none have caused as many causalities do to failure in the line of fire then the M16. Argue all you want…that is a fact but then again it is based on 40+ years of service. Yes it is an excellent weapon but there is are a substantial number of other options for 5.56. The SCAR and the MK416 are being used and are being used in far more critical battle scenarios/operations then the M4…fact! An M4 did not take the life of Osama.

http://www.usnews.com/news/washington-whispers/articles/2011/05/11/the-gun-that-killed-osama-bin-laden-revealed

Yes the scar and the 416 had there growing pains I find it funny the first two years of service where the worst of the M16…hmmmm. But now you have to wonder Why are a number of our critical missions being done with other platforms if the M4 is so perfect?? Is the M4 battle tested yes, has it been around for a long time yes, is it successful yes. Let me put it like this, Brett Favre is one of the best QBs to ever play the game has set many records including most consecutive games but he also holds the highest interception numbers of any QB past or present in the NFL. My point is the M16/M4 is far from perfect, there is no perfect solution however there are better solutions based on the situation and condition of battle then others.

Sorry you disagree with much of what I said but much if not all are facts (Sorry truth for brett favre too…he better not text me either)…like it or not. Most of all just having fun here so take no offense. I dont believe that is why we are here.

Soap:

The M4 if built properly will serve in just as bad conditions, as a 416. Most here would agree. Especially those who’ve used them in bad conditions.

Second: It does not matter if a gun was used to kill OBL. Plenty of LEOs have been killed with Hi-Point pistols in CA, but they’re still a piece of shit.

You also cannot really argue the teething problems of the M16 because that was 40 YEARS AGO. The system has been ironed out by now. The 416 hasn’t even been in service for 10 years. If you were arguing for the SCAR, then your argument might have merit. In fact, from what I hear out there the 416 is still having problems, do I hear ‘‘cracked receivers?’’

I’d like to ask something, how long do you think it takes for an M4 to choke up due to lack of maintenance? My guess is that you’ll be out of ammunition before it chokes, and the M4 has less parts to break. I used to be a piston pusher, but I realized soon on this site, that pretty much every argument for piston ARs falls apart when you start applying logic.

Maintenance isn’t really a problem with M4 type rifles.

soapbox,

To be perfectly blunt. You simply have no idea what you are talking about and you are making decisions or forming opinions based off of shit that you are reading.

I hope that it doesn’t hurt your feelings, but that’s my take on it.

Let me clarify something- I never said that taping a muzzle in the field happens. I said that personnel do have access to and do use muzzle protectors. I have seen it in Iraq, Bahrain, Kuwait and Afghanistan. My guess is that Larry taped it, in lieu of having a muzzle cap.

Also, I do not give a rats ass if RRA is more accurate. People are obsessed with accuracy to the the point that it is silly. Also, there is no such thing as a “Mattel gun”. That is nothing more than internet fantasy from those who don’t have a clue.

As to the silly SCAR and 416 analogy. The sample size is still small, and they still do not have a proven track record like the M16 FOW that have been in service with several countries for the last 40+ years.

I have a lmt piston and I love the thing. Didn’t buy it because I preferred one over the other but just because I wanted one. Works great and never had a problem. Was a little on the pricey side but hey, had a couple bucks laying around so I bought it. No regrets. It cracked me up when I read the guy bought 15 of them. That’s like 30k!! I could understand two (because I have 2), but 15?? Come on, no wonder everyone dislikes this guy on this thread. Anyway, go with an aimpoint. Regardless of which one you choose there all good.

The fact that Osama was killed by an 416 compared to a M4 should make you wonder why…hmmm…why did the seal team chose a 416 over a m4…the article stated reliability…

You asked how long will an m4 go before it chokes…hmmm. How hot is, it, is there dust in the air, is there a sandstorm, what is the humidity? How much oil is on the BCG? But there are many M4 but there is only one SCAR one HK416…lets move on. The is the Colt the USG issues…then there are countless M4 that all the security contractors use. BCM has one filthy 14 article out there…great! I love the BCM stuff but it is not an end all be all because of one magazine article. I love all the test colt does on barrel material…just like BCM. But the barrel typically isnt what fails on a M4!

The race to replace the M4 has been years coming but do to military politics and a lot of lobbying the m4 by colt is still the one. You might want to dig into who is lining the pockets of those making decisions on behalf of the weapons our men and women carry…it honestly shouldnt surprise you. I can point out a thousand reason why the m4 still has issues and still isnt suitable for all combat situations without relying on additional oil and cleaning. This is one of the exact reason why spec ops, seal teams and so on do not use the m4 for the majority of there critical missions. It is not suitable from a sub deployment, air dropped for a helicopter in the sea, etc!!! They dont carry cleaning kits, oil and so on. Infantry does. There is also cost issues and logistics…and of course the wonderful parts argument. We can go round and round you two guys can call me what you want and claim I read this here and there but the fact that you two still cant embrace the fact that it is not being used as a mission critical weapon amaze me…it is a infantry weapon because it has reliability issues…period. Sure there are exceptions to this…the filthy 40 article…great! Know lets see if you were on the front line if you would trust your rifle to the same if your life depended on it…you wouldnt! You two are sipping the M4 kool-aid hard! I am not saying it is the most horrible rifle out far from it…I am saying there are better options in certain situations but both of you cant seem to hear this! Why wouldnt you want the very best for our guys? But lets continue, I am also saying it is a rifle that still has far more limitation then many of the next gen platform. For example if you were to give a soldier two rifles lets say an ACR or a M4…that soldier never shot either what do you think he/she would pick??? I know your kool-aid induced answer…“M4 all day” keep dreaming. This isnt just my opinion. Ergonomic, piston, simplicity, maintenance, etc. That is why such program like SCAR were developed. Not to look for a rifle but to find something to replace the M4 because of its faults. But enough of the insults from you two. I have had it. You are unwilling to believe that there are other options that are far more suitable for battle then the might M4!! You take your into battle and I will stick with my HK416…and I am yet to see a crack! If I had to choose between the M4 and the 416 and my life depended on it…416…or even a SCAR! Go head flame away…I can take it from you two all day…your post counts only shows me you are on here more then a battlefield, enough said.

Wow, thank you for enlightning me. And FYI. I have spent almost 5 years since 2004 in Iraq, Afghanistan and the surrounding AO and I just returned from a short 30 days doing some maritime security/ anti-piracy stuff in Africa and will be heading out again shortly.

So the next time you decide to run your f*cking gums make sure that you know what you are talking about before you play sniper.

I also don’t give a flying fuck if Osama was killed by a Ruger 10/22. So maybe they are in use by Navy SEALs and CAG. But, there are still plenty of other units MARSOC, SF, PJ’s, etc… using the M4.

“People are obsessed with accuracy to the the point that it is silly”

Yes we are…why because a misplaced 5.56 will not kill someone. A misplaced 7.62x39 might not kill some one but it takes off a arm if hit in the shoulder…a 5.56 doesnt…that might be why accuracy has something to do with it. Might be why 6.5 and 6.8 are being considered. Bigger…fits in the same size magwell, but more kinetic energy! Accuracy is the difference between one shot and two…“yes sgt!” I am DONE!

Have you ever seen an AK gunshot up close? I have and it didn’t blow anyones arm off or their leg. I’ll even email you a picture of it if you don’t believe me. As far as I am concerned you need to stay in your lane. Good bye. You will be sorely missed.

Praise jesus.

Interesting. Ok, I’ll say that I don’t sit on either side of the fence. A quality piston AR like the HK 416 or the LMT is fine to me as are good DI rifles like BCM and Noveske. .

No offense intended, but what is your experience level and what are your credentials? The only reason I ask is because you seem to be calling other people’s creds out. If so, it’s only fair to ask what yours are. I know IG questioned your credentials in an earlier post and you never did respond to that. Now you’re calling his out and I know his and he can tell you what they are, but now I’m curious as to what yours are. I’m not trying to call you out, I’m just curious because you seem to be very adamant about this subject.

Anytime someone starts saying “my bigger round is better because if I hit your left pinky toe it will still blow your fucking leg off” I take that as a clue and ignore everything else they say. It’s the same bullshit argument made by those that say “men carry .45’s”

Soapboxpreacherman consider yourself warned in regards to taking cheap shots to an IP/Mod and how much time they’ve spent on the battlefield.

The next warning is a vacation. Knock your shit off.

I have seen an ak gunshot up close what do I win?

I still like my lwrci m6 and have not had any issues. With it. Been overseas with an m4 no issues with it.

Have shot other pistons, scars, sigs, lmt, and they felt fine with the fam fire.

Now if I was going to be in crap without support my bcm middy would go.

Ffh

Wow… lots of emotion here.

I’ll say this. I own DI ARs (Colt and BCM), an LWRC piston AR (10.5") and 2 SCARs (one 10.5", one 16.25"). Of the three weapon types, the SCARs are my favortites, but ALL of them have been totally reliable. So far, the only one run in “tough” conditions (muddy, harsh firing schedule), was the Colt LE6921. It ran flawlessly wih some Slip 2000 squirted in every day. I’d feel totally confident using any of them when relaibility counted.

I bought the piston AR, becuase I wanted less gas in my face and a little less fouling in the receiver when shooting supressed.

Original topic covered and answered.
Stupidity approaching critical mass.
I’m shutting this one down as there is nothing more to be gleaned other than half-baked DI vs Piston rhetoric and personal poutiness.