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YATYAS,
As others have said, “A Piston AR is the solution to an unknown problem.”
Sell your RRA, pool that money w/ your tax money, buy a basic DI AR from LMT, DD, BCM, Colt, or Noveske. Put an Aimpoint T-1 on it, get a bunch of mags, a 2-pt. sling, and shoot the heck out of it. Then, maybe pickup a target upper from one of the same companies with a nice scope and you’ll be set…temporarily… 
But maybe it’s just me…
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Useless. No more than three is needed. Unless you are equipping a small army.
Also, more guns = less bullets. Only buy what you feel secure with. I don’t plan on breaking a Knights gun, but if it happened I have both a training gun, and another service gun.
Wow! I had no idea what kind of sh*t storm I was starting when I posted my question. For that I apologize, however, I would like to thank all of you again for your input. I did buy the MRP DI and I am extremely pleased. This is an incredible weapon! I paid $1500 including shipping and my cost for FFL. Now I gotta figure out what the hell I wanna look through on top of it!
Now I gotta figure out what the hell I wanna look through on top of it!
Checkout the Aimpoint T-1 or H-1.
This video shows the ruggedness of the DD and Aimpoint T-1. But I’m sure any Aimpoint will due.
Very good defense of your viewpoint. That’s refreshing. The “Filthy 14” article was very good, and I’m probably belaboring the point a bit too much, but, I was referring to DI guns used almost as a Squad Automatic, not in their real intended role of “assault rifle”.
I like heavy barrels, because I do like to run my guns (just one or two of them) very hard, for extended periods, almost, but not quite, like a SAW. So I love pistons, quick change barrels, and a heavier barrel.
The story of Special Operations Command came from an article in one of the big gun mags, in an article about the LMT piston guns, although it may be untrue. It did say that the point of aim on some of the SOC carbines was off after using the guns hard and long, and that they examined the guns and found barrel thread distortion was to blame. I know for darn sure that DI guns heat the chambers, BCGs, and barrel thread areas A LOT more than piston guns, so I believe it, but, it could be just a story.
Thanks
That sums it up very well. Very good point. Thanks.
Let me just say that anything you read in a gun rag, is suspicious at best. For example- If you read the new edition of the Shotgun News Treasury there is an article about a gun maker in AZ who “accurized” an M4 for a service member to bring on a deployment to Afghanistan.
Maybe the editors of the magazine believe that shit, but no one in the real world does. There is no way in hell that some random service member was allowed to bring a privately owned weapon on a deployment. As a matter of fact it is expressly prohibited. So it may have been a good read for the masses, but that’s about it.
The fifteen number is true, I didn’t buy them all at once, they are for my son and I, I have my own reasons why I bought so many, and why would you guys even care. I never should have mentioned it.
No one really cares how you spend your money. But when someone says they spent somewhere near 30k on a bunch of the same rifle it does sound a bit BS-ish.
As far as you liking your pistons thats fine. But dont come around here, where there are several if not dozens of guys here who use these types of weapons for a living, and start talking about how one thing is better than the other without some documented proof to back it up.
The piston rifles have the capability to become a great system. But 40+ years of military service has shown the M16/M4/AR15 to be a very reliable and effective weapon system. The big problem with the piston systems currently is the lack of a proven standard. Every manufacturer has their own design. The only design that has seen widespread combat is the HK 416 and they have shown to have some problems.
That brings us to the next problem with the pistons and the biggest reason I wouldnt take one into harms way. We dont know all of the kinks in the system of the piston ARs. Millions of the AR rifles have been produced and we know what the problems are.
Im not saying the piston is a bad operating system. I believe they work well if the rifle is built to use a piston in the first place like the FAL, M14 or SCAR. Shoe horning one into a rifle that wasnt designed for it causes problems.
Ok, I love DD stuff but this torture test does zero for me…Larry puts tape over the muzzle (this is a FLAWED test entirely)…both when he puts it in the dirt and in the water. He lets it drain fully before shooting it as well…in a battle you might not have that time to allow it to drain…more on this later. Shotgun and explosion test…ok I love it! That impresses me. I have shot both DI and Piston (own both too)…I know own a KAC and love it. But knock the pistons all you want, it doesnt take much lube, will function if pulled from the water or mud, dirt has a lesser effect on the BCG because of less oil have dirt getting into it and causing it not to cycle, and yes they do run cleaner (BCG but they still get dirty in the piston but that is easier to clean based on me cleaning both after same amount of rounds), but that is where the differences really span. If you are in the sandbox or special forces…get an HK416. But for a recreational shooter DI more than fine. I hate the weight of a 416 but I would probably pick it over a Colt. If I didnt know what conditions I was fighting in, wet, cold, damp, sand, etc…HK for me. Just my preference but that is based on the SCAR trials where the colt had 6x more stoppage to a SCAR or Hk416. I like the weight and balance of the scar and the colt far better and between the two I would pick the SCAR…flame away colt fans. Stoppage = death! Now this is obviously if I were going to battle. Many of our boys were found dead next to their jammed M16 during vietnam, DI was never tested before it was deployed. The difference in a DI to a piston is since the DI has been around so long we know what to expect of it, what it needs and how it fails…piston ARs…not so much.
I have seen torture test from Sig with the 516 that is very similar to the DD one if not harder. I have seen an ACR dragged behind a humvee for a mile then shot fine…these test are a dime a dozen. If you are a recreation shooter they dont matter. Even those that knock the RRA they make a very good trigger and an excellent barrel. The MOA is better then a Colt. I dont know why but our side by side range test, same day, same temp, same ammo, every shooter behind both had tighter MOA on the RRA then the colt. Colt had a nicer fit and finish but wasnt as accurate…period! And I like colts…I did not like seeing that but I did.
I want to leave you with these videos for it will show you one significant advantage but this to me doesnt apply to the recreational shooter…even the competitive shooter for we will never use these weapons as they are used in a battle. Nor do I play with my Sr15 in the tube on a Sunday afternoon with calgon! So it doesnt matter. Check this out:
HK416 vs Colt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwkHktkTxU
ACR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWvCc77wvk&NR=1
DI has a 40 year head start, we know its strengths and weakness. It certain isnt problem free niether is piston. If I were to buy over I would have done a BCM or DD and KAC (have) for DI, a SCAR or PWS MK114 for piston. Had an ACR loved the simple design and function of it but it was heavy and unbalanced. It breaks downs well, has very few parts and requires little to no tools! To charge the rifle your cheek never needs to leave the stock which mean your eyes dont have to leave the target. Ergos were the best of any rifle…I hated the weight and balance so much I had to get rid of it. If Scrubmaster/Rem lighten her up I am on board!!! Flame away, my opinion and you cant take that away from me…handle and shoot them all, I have shot most, RRA, Colt, ACR, KAC, SCAR, Ruger, etc just my opinion I only have extensive on a few but I know what I like and why I like it. Just my two cents…I will get off my soapbox now. HAHA…more Jimmy Beam please…cya
I think 0321 sounds pretty great but then 03 is pretty great all around. 13 was not too painful. Oh and another vote for DI unless you are shooting a lot of suppressed or full auto.
Soapboxpreacherman… The problems with the M16 in vietnam was not from the DI system. It was from the military deviating from the rifles original design and parameters. It they took out the chrome lined chamber and used a different kind of powder than it was built to use.
Also when they re did the sandstorm test with a properly maintained M4 and all the rifles using the same magazine, the M4 did much better.
Been there too. I saw all kinds of weird shit at weapons turned in. Anyone else ever seen the back of a gum wrapper used? The side with the silver rubbed against metal will transfer over and cover up patina. Some of our weapons had almost no finish on them from over cleaning.
Your post is so run together, that it’s hard to pick it apart and make sense of it. So I’ll do what I can.
Taping the muzzle is valid for the simple fact that many units still issue protective muzzle caps. My guess is that they didn’t have one.
I think that the draining thing was simply an additional safety measure that they took. In any case people that have been in the military know that you are taught to keep the weapon out of the water whenever possible. And I am pretty sure that if you were to simply cant the weapon and slightly pull the chraging handle to the rear you could safely drain it. Also- see protective muzzle cap again.
Unless you are or have been a member of “Special Forces” or have been in the “sandbox” I don’t know how you can recommend an Hk416. In fact, I would much rather have an M4 as I can find parts for it at most bases.
Most of your babble seems to be based off of the so-called dusts test that I think to a degree were flawed and most experienced people would probably tend to agree.
Your Vietnam analogy is uneducated at best which means you are simple being a parrot.
M4’s are plenty accurate and those who have trigger time behind them know that. I would much rather have a Colt M4 that will work than an accurate RRA that doesn’t.
Everything else is just more babble and nonsense.
Jesus H Christ, some folks need to read more and post less instead of spouting off gun rag drivel. There is more bullshit in this thread than I have read on here in a loooong time…
At this point, the OP has resolved his question to his satisfaction, so this whole thread has degraded into uselessness. Which is is like the batsignal for me to put in my 2 cents:jester:
It seems obvious to me that a good old 6920 is a great low/no risk choice for a personal rifle. You put your Aimpoint M4 on it (or T1) and pick up a light (X300 for me, since I can put it on my pistols). For the reasons stated above, the DI guns are the best choice for regular folks. Most of us do not run our guns full-auto suppressed.
That being said, I do happen to have an M16A1 lower so when I bought an upper for it I bought a 10.5 inch HK 416 upper. My reasoning was that it seemed to be adopted by the most “dialed-in” of users. It draws tons of hate on the internet, which is obviously filled with BS anyway, but it seems to be in the hands of DELTA, SEALs, etc. Obviously, when it came out that the 416 was used in the take-down of UBL, the crapstorm started again. I know it causes a lot of butt-hurt, but is really hard to ignore the fact the best of the best think it is a good idea. It seems to me if you have the $ to buy a NFA lower and a suppressor you ought to just get a 416 upper.
I bought a piston LMT because I wanted a piston gun. I have not yet begun to regret it. In fact, I plan to buy a spare, an identical gun, identical right down to the piston. If you want a piston, get a piston. As far as LMT versus LWRC, my LMT jammed recently. Evidently a fragment of metal was in the chamber as the cartridge was fed and I had a live jammed cartridge in an out of battery rifle. Normally options are to “mortar” the rifle (which I hate to even watch) or put a rod down the bore, beat the cartridge out and hope it doesn’t ignite. With the LMT there is a third option, take out the barrel clamping screws and snatch the barrel out. This was a two minute solution to a vexing problem and the POI didn’t change. Point is, I love, love, LOVE the LMT method of barrel attachment. This would hold true for a gas gun LMT as well. Same method of barrel attachment.
DI? GP?
There are pros and cons with each. Less money, less weight, slightly less complexity and less of an issue when parts are required may be enough reason to stay conventional.
The engineer in me whispers “Piston” but it has one engineering concern: bolt carrier tilt. How big of a concern? I dunno. Other issues: cost, weight, parts availability.
Of the two options the OP mentioned, I like the specs of LWRCI barrels: CHF and Meloniting. I like the monolithic rail of LMT and the “quick change” barrels are neat but to me not a necessity. Fit and finish on both appear to be topnotch. The LMT appears to be less expensive - at least from what I’ve seen and I’ve not read much, if any at all, negatives about LMT Gas Piston rifles after a batch or three that had issues cycling when they first appeared on the market.
If you decide to go DI there are a few I’D look at closely: BCM, DD, LMT, Noveske, Colt in any order YOU choose.
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