Just curious- Does anyone rock just irons on their primary/defensive AR? The more I shoot mine, the more I enjoy the light weight and the easy balance without my aimpoint on top. I suppose picking up a T1 would help, but I can buy my M&P for that much.
Not on my primary, but I do have one carbine that is just irons and I love it. Don’t admit you do it around here or you’ll get some pretty nasty comments from the dogmatics about you and your RCR or “Reduced Capability Rifle”. If you don’t conform you are a blasphemer and a charlatan. 
Not on my primary. A high end reddot like a T1 just gives you too many advantages over irons, primarily speed and a more open field of view. AR irons aren’t that great in low light either.
Combat is something that you just don’t make compromises with. Adding up all the little incremental advantages in training and equipment can mean all the difference between life and death.
I use a2 sights on my primary rifle. In fact, all of my HD firearms have iron sights. I tried red dot sights and have never felt comfortable with them. My eyes are also not the best so I see more of a blob than a dot. Another reason I went to iron sights is the fact that you do not have to worry about batteries dying or forgetting to remove the lens covers when you half asleep. When used with a good white light, I am able to see the front sight just fine.
My home defence SBR is a BCM 11.5" iron only rifle…
My H.D. weapon (KISS Carbine) is a Colt AR6520 (stock, except for the BCM FA BCG & CS Buffer Spring).
If you are using a carbine it already has serious inherent range and power limitations. You can make the case that with M193 ammo a 16" barrel is awfully short on power by 175 yards. Irons may give up some real advantages but they also have advantages as you mentioned. The gun is lighter, irons are fairly bombproof, and not slow. Sometimes less can be more; you have to decide. If you have the eyes of the eagle, I envy you. Enjoy it while it lasts.
I shoot a low power compact ACOG because I have the eyes of the bat. There are a lot of things from my youth that I miss but this one was a relatively easy fix. Not cheap–just easy.
You see a blob if you focus on the dot and not on your target. A reddot sight like the T1 is not like a regular rifle scope…the focal point is on the target, not on the optic’s crosshairs/dot. Basically you get your cheek weld, and then look down the length of the rifle at your target. That is major advantage of a reddot in that almost all people, when involved in a shooting(extrememly stressful) get selective sight and they only focus on the threat. When you are in this state of mind and stress, it takes a considerable amount of mental effort to line up iron sights on the threat. A reddot takes advantage on the natural tendencies of the body to get tunnel vision in combat stress and focus on the threat. Think of the cheek weld being glued to your face, and the rifle moving everywhere that you look…the speed and field of view advantage is easily measurable in a carbine class. Even if your cheek weld is off and the irons wouldn’t like up properly, the dot remains centered on the target so you can see it from less than idea angles(unlike irons). Very few LE agencies and military use iron only sights anymore if they have the option to use a reddot. As far as battery life goes, a T1 can be left on for a continuous year on the regular daylight setting and still not burnout on you. If the hell has frozen over and the T1 doesn’t work for some reason, just flip up your rear sight and you can use your irons right through the optic. Not to mention it works quite well at night(unlike irons), and you can add a 3x magnifier for longer ranged shooting or night vision.
I had irons only for a while, but I think many folks are kidding themselves when they go “irons only”, it seems to be the trendy way to say that an Aimpoint is not in your budget yet.
That being said, I value the trigger time with irons and will spend the first range trip with my SBR upon completion with irons only prior to zeroing the H-1.
Those with poor eyesight/astigmatism can also see blobs, figure 8’s, stars, ect, even when using the sight correctly. It’s hard for those with excellent natural vision to understand this sometimes.
Yeah I’ve got irons only, but that’s only because I never set aside money for an EOTECH since my last Ar-15 got stolen over a deployment. With that said, its my only home defense weapon now since my glock got stolen as well and I’m fairly confident I could probably hip shoot someone in the head in the limited confides of my house.
I have to say I think any “power” (other that 1X) ACOG is about the worst home defence optic you could have. I have a 2500 square foot house and not one area where ANY magnification would help, in fact could get me in a bad spot real fast. IF I had any type of optic on a HD gun (like I did with my 870 police) it would be eotech or aim point. Again, you dont really need help when the guy is only 5 yards away…
I would agree with this in my case. Every time I go to buy my optic, something big come up. Usually associated with a short tempered red head. I am going to go the TR-24G route.
I run irons only on my primary, and I do not feel inadequate. irons require a skill set I don’t want to part with either. I see the value in an aimpoint, but I don’t think I am a second rate hack with out one. I am a second rate hack for many other reasons plus, I can draw on a coyote and bust him in the ass plenty quick with in 150 yards. My house isn’t that big.
I believe that in learning on a rifle and mastering it in its basic form, irons only, makes a person that much better when adding “accessories” later. While I train with irons quite often and feel I am very proficient with them, a red dot sight makes me that much better. In a defensive situation there is no way that I would not chose a red dot if I had the choice. I will take every advantage that I can get if my life or the lives of my family or others are on the line.
Yes some people with astigmatism or other eye conditions may have a problem with a red dot. Generally more so with an EoTech due to the type of technology. The dot on the Aimpoint is generally a better option for these people.
My standard response:
It’s only dark half the day.
Most people shoot in the light half of the day and don’t understand how much better an RDS is in the dark. I’m not saying you can’t make do with iron sights but they put you at a proven disadvantage vs an RDS.
So now you have to rely on a battery powered white light in very dark situations to be able to see your sights. There are times when you should ID your target, move, then engage without using your light.
My astigmatism makes shooting little groups off the bench hard with an RDS, it does not bother me at moderate/short range and at speed.
Good points. I’ll keep my M2 on until I can afford the H1/T1/whatever.
I have a an Aimpoint H1 on my primary defense carbine, but the one I have shot and enjoyed the most lately is this one:
Lightweight and more fun than a barrel full of monkeys!!!
Not another one of these I-am-my-own-hero-because-I-only-shoot-irons threads.
Allow me to toot my own horn and say, yes, I am super bad ass.:sarcastic: JK. I don’t really think that was anyone’s intent. If you need lessons, I am sure one of us would be happy to help.
Irons are fine, but remember that they have their downsides as well. If you do not know what they are, take either a low light class or shoot at moving targets (while standing still and on the move).
C4