Internet Gun Forums

General General Discussion
21

It’s really not just limited to gun forums. I participate in (or at least read) forums for every hobby I have, and they are all basically the same, they all have their recurrin arguments, and once you’ve been around them for a bit they all thave their “gurus”. Try going to a Jeep forum and asking “which should I get, a body lift of suspension lift?” and see what happens. It’s their version of “.45 vs. 9mm” or “Glock vs. 1911”.

I do believe that alot of the issue comes from the anonymity that screen names afford people. It’s the reason that I now use my real name (and on this site my own photograph as an avatar) when posting.

One could argue that “gun forums” should be taken a bit more seriously because guns can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands and because the issue behind the gun, self defense, is so critical. The reality is, however, that the vast majority of us are actually “hobby shooters” and the vast majority of the information they get from internet forums isn’t actually dangerous.

and, if nothing else, as va_dinger said they can be entertaining.

22

Places like that are sometimes a good source of entertainment…You have to love how some fourms make non gun owners moderators based on popularity.

As I get more into shooting and a career change, I am more interested in technicle stuff. I have found coming here is better than most. But you can still sense that only what 10% are using for platforms and gear is acceptable and everything else is not. It’s expected…

23

I was amazed to find out that the majority of the mods and staff on some forums are not shooters at all. This is why they generally never post in the technical forums. Heck, I don’t even think the OWNERS of some forums even shoot. :rolleyes:

C4

24

While I agree with everyone about the proliferation of forums of mass distraction, I think there’s a lot of positive outcome to internet gun boards.

I have learned a metric shit-ton worth of good info in the past year or two from these places. Let’s face it, for the average citizen there just isn’t a practical way to be exposed to this kind of information, be it technical, tactical, or otherwise. How else would a 24 year old mechanical engineer from rural Oklahoma ask questions and get answers from real-world credentialed experts? If you aren’t in a line of work that puts you in the circle of knowledge, you’d be stuck with gun magazines, gun shop chit-chat, gun show green berets, and mass produced cheap-crap catalogs as your sources of info. Like Cybin said, there’d be a lot of us running around with First-Samco’d up Oly carbines with clamp on plastic doo-dads hanging off if it because we just wouldn’t know there was better stuff out there. I’ve got friends who “really like guns” and sound like I did when I was in high school. Rumors, myths, wives’ tales, silliness. One or two of them are serious enough they might swing the right direction with some help; the others I just smile and nod and try not to argue.

I found AR15.com first, of course, and branched out to read forums like the old G&R board, Lightfighter.net, 10-8 forums, and now M4 is my main hangout. The reason I progressed past Arf is because I saw that there was a more serious side to this “gun nut” hobby and wanted to grow in that direction, and I found Arf lacking beyond the “hey look at this cool new thingamajig” posts. I saw that many of the names a I recognized as being the knowledgeable ones from Arf were posting elsewhere, and I “took the red pill” so to speak.

Instead of thinking of bigger boards like AR15.com as a cesspool, think of them more like filters. Say you’ve got 100 guys who buy brand new Bushmaster AR15s at the gun store or show, and go home to learn more online. 95 of them will find AR15.com, buy some cool-guy gadgets, post pictures of them and be perfectly happy shooting them twice a year. 4 of them will buy some gadgets, shoot a lot, read about some techniques, be confident they know enough and be happy shooting them every few months. That last guy will realize he knows nothing, and that most of they people on Arf know nothing, end up over here, seek out training and first hand experience from proven sources, and really grow as a shooter.

Every good board starts out small, and if they stay relatively small, they’ll stay good. I used to be pretty active on a rock-crawling board that was small, close-knit, and chock-full of the guys who were really on the cutting edge of modifications and rig building. GD was a place to hang out while you were waiting for someone to reply to your technical question (and since everyone knew each other, that place was great fun, not mindless posting). Fast forward 5 years, there are 84,000 members, a paid membership system, GD is the main draw, new posts disappear down the page faster than you can read them, and I rarely visit. (One smart thing they did do upon growing is that GD posts don’t add to post count.)

I hope M4C continues to evolve, but I hope it never grows like that. Some of the rules and moderation issues may seem over the top to people now…but if it fends off that barbarian hordes, it’s worth it.

A couple other thoughts…forums can be a great source for political alerts, mobilizing letter or phone campaigns, etc. Everybody who gets on AR15.com, and starts buying ARs, is another American with a vested interest in keeping them legal, accessible, and affordable; another voice to be raised in defense of liberty (an idealistic view, I know).

I also think that while there are a ton of goobers buying parts they don’t necessarily need or have a clue how to utilize, all that extra commerce has got to be good for product and business growth and development. How long would it take for a product like the $200 Magpul stock infiltrate the market if they had to rely on Delta Force catalogs and gun rag reviews? The me-too consumerism that drives every Arfcom picture thread is helping put new products and companies on the map. Think about how much product innovation has happened in the past 5-7 years…

Crap, that’s a long post. Sorry.

25

This quote, from Bhor_Adam on TOS pretty much sums it up.

By way of context its speaking about folks bitching about the rescue of the 3 lost climbers in Oregon:

“However, you are making the mistake of applying reason and logic to a all-too-typical “I’m ignorant and proud” arfcom bashfest. Facts as to actual procedures mean nothing - all of these keyboard warriors are ready to take to those same mountains tomorrow to take on the evil black helicoper government commandos, and they know how things really are.”

Many sites are full of folks who dont stray far from the keyboard, and who either live vicariously thru others, or bash others who do anything other than post on the net

26

I usually refrain from airing too many of my gripes, but I’ll make an exception.

Doesnt matter where I go, I absolutley LOATH to read the following words in virtually any context.

  • Need
  • Tacticool
  • Armchair commando (or varients)
  • Gear whore
    Any similar conotations of the above.

Upon reading such words in a post, I usually dont bother to finish reading it. Yes, there are those who buy gear for the sake of buying it, and never use it. There are those who spend a lot of money on weapons and gear, and never do anthing more than bumpfire it 3-4 times a year at the range, and have no plans at all to ever seriously train with it. There are those with no clue at all.

I am not one of them. I get sick and tired of of being lumped in with them, just because I no longer wear a uniform, and didnt get to do anything overly spectacular when I did. My firearms are weapons. I treat them as such and train with them as such. I buy good gear and train with that gear to support my weapons. This is not a hobby for me. Training to more effectively kill someone is not what I consider a hobby, as I am not a sociopathic serial killer. I get enjoyment from shooting as a pleasant side benefit, not from it being a goal.
I do not like anyone teling me what I need or dont need for any particular situation, etc., just like I dont like the govt telling me what kind of gun I do or dont need. Your goals and purposes for your weapons might nt be the same as mine. Therefore, what you WANT on your gun may not be what I WANT on mine to accomplish my goal. This is not to be construed to think I dont want to hear what others have found to work for them or not work for them, and in what context/situation. Quite the contrary, thats exactly what I want to know. Just dont tell me that because you didnt get any use out of a light on your AR at the last fun shoot you went to, that I dont NEED one on mine either. Etc. Etc.
I will shut up now.

27

The internet does not make people stupid, it just brings all the stupid ones together.

28

Damn funny.

:smiley:

29

You can usually tell what level they’re at by what they’ve posted (i.e. class AAR’s, gear or equipment reviews, etc.). Photos tell a lot as well. You look at a photo from KevinB for example, and without knowing his background you can see that the equipment has been extensively used. Look at someone else’s photo, and the the weapon doesn’t have a scratch on it, not even by the shell deflector. Said weapon is prominently posed next to the (insert brand name here) open folding knife who’s blade is shiny new, knee pads without a speck of dirt, or maybe a belt with a dump pouch on the same side as the holster.
:eek:

I think the majority of the hardcore types know who is who, or at least can tell who knows their stuff. They push their “Tier-1” guns and equipment to the limit, then come back for more. They have found out the hard way what brands worked, and what brands failed. They break stuff even from the good companies. You constantly see the same faces at all the different carbine classes taught by the various big name instructors that everyone knows (or should know). You meet them at SAR and SHOT.

Sometimes work has me locked down indoors with nothing else but a computer. When that happens, the well-known “other board” can many times provide more humorous entertainment than YouTube.

30

My blood pressure issues no longer allow participation in many forums;) .

I used to really enjoy the ability to interact and learn from many or the forums. I have made some great friends on the forums, but the bad has begun outweighing the good. I have simply grown tired of having folks without a clue about subjects having an equal footing with those who have spent a lifetime gaining the experience to discuss the topic at hand.

Only on the internet can a 19year old airsofter tell a career SF NCO in a combat zone to STFU when discussing weapons deployment…this folks is not reality. Its the same place where folks with zero Military or LE experience can “out” posers and question those with experience with impunity. These folks have ruined a good thing.

I limit myself to here, 10-8, Badlands, and Lightfighter these days. I’ll look at other places, but I try to stay as un-involved as possible.

31

LOKNLOD - I took the blue pill, cause I was scared. Now it has been 4 hours and I need to go see a doctor!! :smiley: :smiley: :stuck_out_tongue:

Grant, don’t let GT get to you. I’m pretty sure the whole Tier threads you spawned also spawned this thread. Personally, I see Tiers as a good guide line but you know every time you mention that in the BRC you are going to get hell. I’m juss sayin’. :cool: However, I agree with your general premise of this thread. I don’t talk because I have one franken-AR that gave me problems which have since been fixed. I could bash you for selling me the faulty carrier key, but shit happens and it did run 200-300 rounds before that failure. It was a $10 key and is disposable. I could blame you, the manufacturer, or myself. That won’t help anyone, instead I’d rather identify the problem and share that information with other newbies that need to diagnose their ARs as well. In the end, it was a great learning experience. Next time my AR goes down (and it will cause none, regardless of “tier,” are immune) I will be prepared.

Carry on!

32

NO ONE can ever tell you what is best you and your situation. They can however recommend things.

You train and prepare for the worst (as do I). Most shooters on forums view the AR like they view the 10/22 (a plinker) and believe it foolish to train and guy quality gear.

When these two worlds collide (and they do everyday) it never turns out well because each side believes the other is an idiot. The question I always ask, is if the SHTF, do you want to come to my place or the guy that likes to shoot dirt?

C4

33

Fantastic thread.

I’ll be honest right from the start and say that there are only “2” firearm websites that I frequent: M4Carbine and Lightfighter. (I haven’t visited arfcom in months, let alone post there…)

M4 is like a breath of fresh air. I truly feel comfortable with the smaller and sincere group here. I hope that doesn’t change. This is my main firearm forum, period. There’s a sense of respect regardless of who is posting or if opinions differ. That in itself is priceless.

While Lightfighter has some great info at times, I get easily nauseated from the egos and superiority complex found in most of the posts. Needless to say, my visits are short and infrequent there, usually just to check out the “World Situation” forum, which I find as a good source of information and viewpoints.

34

Playing devil’s advocate…

Most of the people you’re referring to don’t believe that it will, and quite frankly recent history is on their side. New Orleans is probably the worst disaster (including 9-11) where a firearm may do people any good, and there were no reports that I’ve heard of where anyone actually used, or for that matter needed, a firearm to defend themselves. Let alone a rifle. Even the reports of violence were in the worst parts of the city.

Prior to that, the next most recent would probably be the LA Rodney King riots where there were actually reports of store owners using firearms, and even rifles, to defend their property, not themselves. If one is willing to give up the property, or simply stay out of the crappy parts of town, that problem goes away.

Let’s be honest. Most people will never be the victim of a violent attack, let alone a murder, and even fewer will be able (even if they are prepared) to use a firearm to defend themselves. Whether you left it at home, or got shot in in the back of the head at an ATM, or were unable to draw the firearm, etc. So that number is even more greatly reduced.

The vast majority of Americans (including far too many “survivalists” and “self defense enthusiasts”) would be better off cutting down on the fast food, wearing their seatbelt, and quitting smoking. They are far more likely to die due to those activities than they are a violent crime, let alone one that may require defending themselves with a rifle. Just like there is a hierarchy of needs, there should be a hierarchy of survival.

So, while you may survive every single day because you plan and prepare to, and they do so out of pure dumb luck, the outcome is still the same. While you and I may disagree with the way they reach that outcome, they still get there anyway.

Now, with all that said, I still train to defend myself, I still carry a gun whenever I can, and I still keep loaded rifles in the house. I also eat right, excercise, don’t smoke, wear my seatbelt, don’t do drugs, etc. I stay out of bad neighborhoods, dangerous bars, and crappy cities (like LA, New Orleans, and Miami). But I’m realistic when dealing with other shooters, and have tried to get to the point where I just enjoy their company if I can and ignore them if I can’t.

35

All due respect Rob, thats exactly the kind of mindset I am talking about.

36

I’m not sure I get your meaning.

37

I am sure that belongs on the first M4C t-shirt.

38

Rob S

Let’s be honest. Most people will never be the victim of a violent attack, let alone a murder, and even fewer will be able (even if they are prepared) to use a firearm to defend themselves. Whether you left it at home, or got shot in in the back of the head at an ATM, or were unable to draw the firearm, etc. So that number is even more greatly reduced.

The vast majority of Americans (including far too many “survivalists” and “self defense enthusiasts”) would be better off cutting down on the fast food, wearing their seatbelt, and quitting smoking. They are far more likely to die due to those activities than they are a violent crime, let alone one that may require defending themselves with a rifle. Just like there is a hierarchy of needs, there should be a hierarchy of survival.

So, while you may survive every single day because you plan and prepare to, and they do so out of pure dumb luck, the outcome is still the same. While you and I may disagree with the way they reach that outcome, they still get there anyway.

I believe that is the Mind set Hawkeye is referring too.

You believe that most people will not fall pray to violence, but yet you carry concealed.

You seem to believe that those who train and prepare will reach the same outcome as those who use blind luck so why bother.

Guys like you are interesting… you believe most of us are posers and waste our time and we should be more like you and train in flip flops and a yellow hat because to do other wise is silly and a waste of time, but yet you attend a Carbine class which is based on how to Fight with a carbine, a weapon you believe will never be needed as SHTF scenarios are few and far between. And a class that is typically attended by "too many “survivalists” and “self defense enthusiasts”

A guy who’s proud to proclaim he was banned from 2 major gun boards

I just can’t understand how that happened…:rolleyes:

39

In your rush to be offended, you didn’t notice the “playing devil’s advocate” at the beginning of the post, huh?

How about instead of attacking me, you put some thought into it and address the points I made.

I’m not saying I think that way, but it cracks me up when guys like you have no response to a post like that other than to attack my attire.

C’mon, debate the issue not the poster.

40

In the NRA magazines, there are letters and news releases about people being attacked and using a firearm to defend themselves every month . I guestimate that they are only getting 1% of all the crimes that are stopped because someone used a firearm to protect themselves.

I have been through a hurricane and stranded without power and roads blocked for 1 week. It doesn’t take long before people start to lose their civility and thinking about taking what is yours.

As far as firearms and training goes, I would rather have all the skill and knowledge in the world and never need it then to need it and not have it.

Firearms and training = no more victims.

C4