Internet Gun Forums

General General Discussion
1

Internet gun forums started to gain a lot of popularity in the mid to late 90’s. Because of this we now have a whole generation of shooters that have learned everything they know about weapons and gear from the internet.

In the past, shooters gained their knowledge from attending shooting schools or military service (first hand). With the birth of huge gun forums, they now get the bulk of their knowledge from reading about other peoples experiences (second/third hand).

One of my favorite questions you see on forums is the following:

Member 1: Which AR’s are the best?

Member 2: OLY!

Member 3: BM!

Member 4: RRA!

What member 1 fails to realize is the members 2-4 have ONLY owned one AR in their entire life. So their experience with other AR’s is zero, but they feel that their AR is the best because they own it. :rolleyes: The other thing that member 1 doesn’t know is that the other members all have a total round count of about 1,000 rds through their collective AR’s.

So the question is this good or bad? One thing is for sure, internet shooters are very knowledgeable on name brands, prices and what is new.

One of the main downsides that I see with forums, is that they are CONSTANTLY perpetuating the same lies over and over (like the one about Mattel making M16’s). The other biggest problem I find, is that if they see a guy post that his XYZ AR went down then they believe that every AR that company makes is junk.

Thoughts?

C4

2

…but then again the internet is anonymous so you can only assume the responses you are getting are based on E-Knowledge and not experience.

Does it REALLY matter though? Arfcom does not cater to the professional nor would the professional go there for advice.

3

I run into alot of shooters, who are just that. They know how to use the stuff they have and may not be up to date on the latest and greatest.

I agree 100% with learning to shoot, nothing replaces the things you learn in person-from people who know what they’re doing.

Long ago, I went to a school hosted by Hampton PD. It was a Beretta pistol course, At the time, I had a Smith 5906. A retired Chicago PD guy named Jack Manfre taught it. One of the first things he said was that nothing he is going to teach was “his” he taught everything he had learned from others and put it together in a manner that worked. A little bit here and there. That statement alone made me really listen to him, it just made alot of sense!

I’ve learned the same way, all I know, I’ve picked up through time and I sort through it all and apply it as deemed appropriate.

From time to time someone will ask “have you seen this or used that? I read this in this magazine, etc” I’m looking at them with this blank face, saying, what?

Those of you who know him have heard this-Does it work? Is it necessary? and Can you duplicate it under stress?

Mark

4

Ah, ye of common sense. You have been around enough to know that the knowledge that comes out of forums is most likely 3rd hand at best and to take it as such. To the unsuspecting shooter, they believe that God himself has written it.

I am not really concerned with any forum in particular or if the shooter is a professional or not. I would say that 80% of the posters on the internet are NOT professional’s (this would include me) and they DO come to the internet to get advice on gear and weapons. The smart ones have learned to trust only a few posters and ignore the rest. Then they find out for themselves by buying said item.

C4

5

The internet is only good for porn and movie reviews.

6

The internet gun forums are a good place to get gear reviews. If it wasn’t for them I would be running around with an Hbar wearing 1st samco handgaurds and 40 round USA brand magazines. Hell if it wasn’t for the net I wouldn’t know to buy my gear from Grant. I would probably buy junk out of Delta Force or Cheaper Than Dirt.:confused:

With that said, I would not try to teach myself tactics by reading the forums. You guys have already said it. There’s no replacement for 1st hand experience. A lot of people think they become navy seals after spending an hour reading the boards. I’ve leaned to tune these types out.
:cool:

7

And I would argue that even most of the movie reviews suck. That leaves me with just porn :smiley:

8

Good point. :smiley:

9

The internet has its problems, but as Grant stated, if you are smart (intelligence with wisdom), the internet gun forums can be a treasure trove of information to those like myself, casual, non-professional shooters who love AR’s (and FAL’s :stuck_out_tongue: ).

I have made MUCH WISER purchases because of ARFCOM and M4C, and I will never deny this fact. If you are a knuckle-dragging, mouth-breather, then the internet gun forums have probably made you into a bigger fool than you were before…

It also wields POWER (good and bad)…
For example, it was the power of the bad feedback, and the resulting loss of sales, that motivated Wolf to stop using laquer on their ammo cases. I’m sure there are many more examples if I thought upon it.

I willfully admit that it was seeking “experienced, shooter” advice and knowledge that brought me to M4C, as ARFCOM fell prey to its success and became 90% useless babble to me. So count me in for a +1 on gun forums…

Rmpl

10

Much of whats lacking in regards to internet gun info, is background, context, complete info, etc.

For example. Someone posts that they own item/gun brand X, and it broke on them today and they have only had it a month.
What you dont hear, is how it was dropped the day before and tumbled down 3 flights of concrete stairs.

11

A wise man once said…

The Internet is an intensifier, it amplifies humanity, it finds that which a man truly is and makes it stronger. If you are dumb, it will make you dumber; if you are smart, it will make you smarter; if you are noble, it will make you nobler; and if you are a pervert, it will make you more perverse.

In the end, the Internet will be either the greatest or worse thing that ever happened.

12

I agree.

13

Who ever said this was a very wise man indeed.

Internet forums are for the most part worthless. M4C is trying to be different but it will be a long and hard up hill battle to keep it on track.

Most forums are filled with arrogant/opinioned guys who have no earthly idea what they are talking about 99.9% of the time. You are more likely to get the wrong answer if you dare to ask a question. Others are dominated by / run by self proclaimed “Experts” with over bloated ego’s that seem to care more about pushing me to buy more crap so they can get free shit. I have deemed both types “Time Killers Only" for the past six months. If I wake up in the middle of the night and cannot go back to sleep they help to pass the time.

Neither type appeals to me anymore for anything else. I have better things to do with my time and all it takes for me is a phone call to get straight info.

Obviously every forum usually has at least a few guys who are worth listening to but they are for the most part drowned out by the masses.

I only actively participate on M4C & AKForum because they are trying to be different.

14

These forums of course have pros and cons. Take, for example, the 800-pound gorilla, arfcom. The problems many have had there are well known, and I won’t bring any up on this site. However, most of the people that I know here, I know originally from arfcom. The earlier training classes that Dinger organized had much of the participation they did due to exposure on arfcom.

All of these sites have a certain level of noise. It’s quite low here, and that’s wonderful.

Pay attention on the various gun forums, and you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

15

The other thing about the internet gun forums is the BS that most folks who read gun magazines spout. I believe that 95% of most gun magazine articles are absolute dog dung. The only mag I still subscribe to is SWAT.

While I am on a rant: How about the guy that has read every issue of Blaster and Blammo and tries to tell a bonafide subject matter expert he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? Only on the internet can such things happen.

Or, how about the guys who have tons of gear and guns, but never train with them. They spend all their time polishing and oiling safe queens and getting ready for zombie invasions. I KNOW those guys never put all their gear on and try to go prone from a run, let alone get back up or attempt to change a mag while prone, or in the dark! But these guys are experts;) because they have all the cool stuff!

My stuff mostly sucks, but it’s beat up and worn because it’s honestly used. I guess I am not tacticool.

How about all the cop bashers? Guys who gave up their lunch money in high school become sudden tactical geniuses in 20/20 hindsight whenever there is any negative police news story.

I met one internet wonder in person at a carbine course. He went three and a half bills, easy, and proceeded to tell me and the other cop who was in attendance, that most cops can’t shoot. Keep in mind, the other cop was a SWAT, K9, Explosive breacher, prior Marine infantry, extremely capable and incredibly humble nice guy. So nice, he let everyone of the regular citizens who wanted to shoot his issued M4 and MP5SD. This is a HUGE deal in California that most folks will never get to do. I’m not HSLD, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one time and I mostly don’t make a donkey out of myself on the range.

Fatf@#k keeps running his mouth about cops’ poor shooting until I look at him, contemplate what I would do if I wasn’t a cop and could get away with an appropriate ass beating, and then I just say, “You’re right. Cops can’t shoot. Good luck with that Kel-tec,” and walked away.

I used to argue with stupid folks on the net, but it just isn’t worth the effort. I have too much to do, too much to learn, and not enough time to waste on idiots. Work is when I get paid to deal with oxygen-thieves, not my time.

16

The smart ones have learned to trust only a few posters and ignore the rest

That’s how it works for me…

I have to admit… Prior to say… 01-02, I had never seen on any boards and never heard of a lot of the techniques, and gear and trainers that are out there. My experience was working for Uncle Sugar and from what I had read in some of the gun rags. So I have to say, I have learned alot in the few short years I have been on gun boards.

And since I consider myself reasonably intelligent in a moderate sort of way…:wink:
I learned very quickly who knew what they were talking about and who was absolutely full off SH*%. Like anything in life, you need to adjust the sensitivity of your BS and Dumb Ass Meters and calibrate them on a regular basis. Once that is done, then it makes sifting thru all the Airsofters and retards pretty easy.

I have learned not to get sucked in or even respond to threads that I know will go south quickly . Any thread that begins with
What is the best…
30 vs 28…
Aimpoint vs EOTech…
Colt vs >insert AR maker here<…

You can tell just by perusing the training forums of most boards… very little traffic. Training and technique’s are boring to most. no cool shiny gadgets to give you the perceived “edge” Everyone is more concerned with the latest new toy. Don’t get me wrong… I’m a gear queer big time… but you have to evaluated what a new piece of gear is worth to you and if it will really enhance your performance.

I’ll say this about Gunboards…The Equipment exchanges have been awesome. I have gotten some smoking good deals on used stuff that has given me the opportunity to try a lot of different stuff to find out what works for me.

Like anything in life… you get out of it what you put in…

17

My two cents…

This topic is very similar to a topic discussing the ability of a person to learn martial arts from a textbook. You can read about Judo, Karate, Kung Fu, and dozens of different martial arts styles in many published books and periodicals (magazines) out there, but that doesn’t mean you are a good martial artist. It means you enjoy reading about the topic of martial arts.

Reading about shooting and shooting techniques on an Internet page is a lot like a person who tries to learn martial arts from a book. Any person who has studied martial arts in a school will tell you out right that you can’t leanr the techniques without going to class, and without a good instructor. There are no self-taught blackbelts in martial arts. Isn’t this same thing true with the techniques of learning how to fight and defend one’s self with a rifle? I think it is.

I could fill sentences and paragraphs about what I have read about Bruce Lee, the martial artist, but that doesn’t mean I am a pratitioner of his style of martial arts called Jeet Koon Do. Same thing about shooting. I may be able to read and write stuff about a sniper like Carlos Hathcock, but that doesn’t mean I am a sniper.

I think you all get the point… To read about an activity, or even to write about it is fun and enjoyable entertainment. I even enjoy asking questions that stimulate discussion from time to time.

But if a person really wants to learn to shoot, I think the best advice is to find a good instructor. A lot of folks might have to swallow some pride, especially folks who are to-date 100% self-taught… but I don’t think anything could beat getting the information directly from a shooting professional. In person, at the range, where you can prove the instructor’s words right there and then.

What the Internet does is this… it offers literally millions of individuals to meet on a forum, or a chat room, or in an e-mail, or on a web page, and the key word for the Internet is communication. We can all talk about it… yes, anonymously, or you can tell folks who and where you were, either way. The Internet isn’t exclusively anonymous. But it is a form of communication second to none out there.

And concerning good tips versus bad tips…

Truth has a way of finding the surface. B.S. has a way of being found out. If anyone is sincerely seeking answers and knowledge, most likely given the chance to read enough responses from a number of folks… they’ll figure out which is truth, and which is some knuckle-head spreading B.S.

The cool thing is, we all dig guns, and that is the common thread among us all… and in that, it becomes almost like a family. Some good, some bad, some folks you like, some folks you hate… but that’s life…

and maybe this was three cents, not two… ha

M4.Geek

18

Harv, that sums it all up and then some…

19

I totally agree…

I started a handgun forum about 8 months ago and think that it’s a great place for fellow gun enthusiast to meet up to share experiences, information, advice and in some cases a life time of knowledge that can really help someone just starting out. Is there a BS factor…? In some cases yes, but most of the time it’s found and is either removed or is corrected. With my forum having over 1,200 members, the BS is found pretty quickly. I’m lucky at this point and there hasn’t been that much, of course the forum is still growing.

20

Here are some numbers from another forum, just to illustrate:

There are currently 112,584 registered members; 112,390 are active accounts.

GD has 336,686 topics with 6,684,276 replies.

The Instruction Forum (which has 6 sub-forums) has a total of 195 topics with 1,628 responses.

:eek: