I can’t seem to find ammo anywhere! I have checked all the local places and did some Google-fu and nothing has turned up! I went in with the intention of getting a J-frame, which was in stock and now I am really kicking myself. Can someone please help me out?
Curious, did you look at the LCR?
I did find that site while searching, I was hoping to get some practice and JHP at that same time. That might be asking too much though
I did not look at the LCR. I believe they were in stock though.
I’ve had an LCP for almost 2 years. It’s the main weapon I carry, mostly because I’m no LEO and I don’t expect a fight, it’s a mouse gun. I like it but true 380 hard to come by and expensive. My logic is this, from a Mossad friend, one must be concerned with a 9mm it can and does over penetrate, so hollow points make defensive sense. A 380 will kill but one might be surprised that it won’t always go through winter clothes. It’s no range queen it’s designed for “close” combat. One would also be surprised, right or wrong just what a jury might consider if one chose a bullet for it’s “stopping power”(?) were you looking for trouble. I carry good defensive hollow points in a 9mm to avoid a chance of over penetration. Like my Mossad friend told me and he favored a 22 said three shots, to the nose, to stop your man not kill him, if you got a 380 2 shots should do, I just use target ammo, nothin’ fancy I’m not looking for trouble. I often carry the LCP in a belt “like” camera bag, no one ever seems to take note, it is that small.
I’m gonna have to call BS on that statement, unless you can cite a case where someone was convicted in a “good” shoot because of ammunition choice.
For heaven’s sake stop talking to your Mossad friend and go out and get some training from a reputable instructor.
Definitely.
While 12 months ago, ammo seemed in short supply all over, it now seems to be more regional. Around here, there’s .380 ammo everywhere. But good luck trying to find some bargain-priced .45ACP.
wow…
I know right. I was looking at 9mm yesterday at walmart…$23.xx/100. I remember when I started shooting it was less than $9 for the same.
Not to be argumentative, not to say that one does not have the right to self defense, however, a simple search will show multiple examples where the choice of bullets where used in evidence, not always winning a case but used to influence the jury.
People have been arguing just what makes an effective round, if you choose a 45 based on the fact that one shot will knock him off his feet you have a reasonable argument, it’s your choice and it may well hold up in court. You may find that should that shot go through the wall of a New York apartment and kill a little old lady at tea you now have another issue.
True, I’m sure there are many fine “American” instructors and experts as to firearms. My point with the Mossad agent, a rather respected group in general. Was in the olden days, the 22 was often the weapon of choice. Combat situation differed, this was often the choice of “sky marshals” used at very close range where putting a bullet through the fuselage was considered a bad thing…
However, perhaps everything I say is just BS, after all you don’t know me, my background or experience as I don’t know yours. Perhaps it’s best for me to just except that you are 100% correct. Still if I choose to carry a LCP 380 acp my general load choice is decent target ammo, nothing unusual, for a 9mm I do choose a hollow point, logic that it reduces the threat of over penetration.
Whether either is a final deciding factor in a jury trial I can not say, however, I think the term “cop killer” has been applied to certain types of bullets in a court of law. I also point out that "most reputable instructors who have trained with or know of the Mossad will attest to their training. While most might consider 3 shots at very close rang to the center of the face with a diminutive 22 ineffective, it’s been proven repeatedly in real world conflicts, clearly, your mileage will vary.
The point is we are discussing a “mouse gun” not a combat proven rifle but a weapon primarily designed for use at just a few feet, again I only pass along a conversation (a few actually) I have never shot a person, so perhaps your knowledge is far superior, I won’t bore you further with court cases other than to say the subject has been argued.
Cabala’s has a bunch, I just got some 223 but the 380 was like almost $20 a box, I thought that to be a bit too pricey and a CZ PO1 9mm is much m ore pleasant at the range than the little LCP.
Target:
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=PM380A&src=tpSlrHm
Self-defense:
ETA: Not advocating either of these ammo choices, but the OP said he was looking for target and self defense loads available from the same source.
Then you should be able to provide links easily. Please do so.
See, this is not a new concern. It has come up before and those who warn about it most stridently are generally extremely short on documentation that backs up their claims. The only case I am aware of where ammo selection was a critical issue was the Fish case out in California, and even then that was a textbook example of why you don’t shop in the bargain bin for a lawyer.
People have been arguing just what makes an effective round, if you choose a 45 based on the fact that one shot will knock him off his feet you have a reasonable argument, it’s your choice and it may well hold up in court. You may find that should that shot go through the wall of a New York apartment and kill a little old lady at tea you now have another issue.
You would be hard pressed to come up with a weapon and bullet combination that would not land you in trouble if your round ends up in the brainstem of ol’ Miss Johnson across the way.
True, I’m sure there are many fine “American” instructors and experts as to firearms. My point with the Mossad agent, a rather respected group in general.
Israeli skill with weapons is HIGHLY overrated, generally.
Was in the olden days, the 22 was often the weapon of choice. Combat situation differed, this was often the choice of “sky marshals” used at very close range where putting a bullet through the fuselage was considered a bad thing…
In the United States we have the benefit of a large number of shootings involving handguns and an entire field of scientific research that is dedicated to understanding how gunshot wounds work. I would not be in a hurry to dismiss all the research we have on hand and the lessons learned as a result of it on the word of one dude who claims to be Mossad.
Still if I choose to carry a LCP 380 acp my general load choice is decent target ammo, nothing unusual,
My problem with “decent target ammo” is that “decent” varies considerably even within the same brand from lot to lot because of how target ammo is produced. While FMJ ammo is generally preferable in a mousegun, the FMJ ammo on the market is mostly bulk target ammo made with less consistency in components and quality control than premium self defense loads like Speer’s Gold Dot loadings. The good hollowpoint stuff is going to go bang more consistently and has a better chance of feeding reliably thanks to nickel plated cases and taper-crimping.
If you can find match quality FMJ that’s a different story.
for a 9mm I do choose a hollow point, logic that it reduces the threat of over penetration.
Overpenetration is not a likely outcome with handgun rounds generally. Generally handguns suffer from the opposite problem.
Whether either is a final deciding factor in a jury trial I can not say, however, I think the term “cop killer” has been applied to certain types of bullets in a court of law.
…and if the term comes up on court it would be relatively simple to point out that the baliffs in the courtroom at that moment are carrying JHP rounds in their weapons, as are the police patrolling the streets outside the courtroom. It would be relatively simple to present FBI recommendations to police departments about ammunition selection and the reasons for it.
It is highly unlikely that if you find yourself making such arguments that you’d be on easy street if you just stuck with the FMJ ammo.
While most might consider 3 shots at very close rang to the center of the face with a diminutive 22 ineffective, it’s been proven repeatedly in real world conflicts, clearly, your mileage will vary.
There’s nothing that 3 shots to the face with a .22 LR can do that 3 shots to the face of a reliably performing 9mm option can’t do better. You must also keep in mind that this is happening in a very specific scenario that does not reflect the realities of how most self defense encounters go down.
This again goes back to the large amount of data available in the US about gunfights and what works. Mouseguns are better than nothing, but they are weak, difficult to shoot well under stress, and generally not what anyone who knew there was going to be a fight ahead of time would take into the fight.
Note to DrScooter - when most people find themselves in a hole, they stop digging.
Just sayin’…
B_C
+1 on Natchez Shooters Supply, you can sign up to be notified when ammo comes in stock and then place an order, they typically get .380 fairly often, just gotta watch. Just bought some from Cabelas the other day, check their website. Also, I think the LCP forum Elsie Pea- not sure if that is correct, they have a running post on who/where there is .380 ammo in stock everyday.
Still no .380 love here in MI, but I did manage to order some of the Hornady Critical Defense 380 and my LCP loves it. The more testing that it goes through (380 in Critical Defense) it really does seem to live up to it’s propaganda. I saw a show on Shooting USA recently on it, and American rifleman did an article of both the Hornady and the Winchester DPX loads. According to the Magazine article, both rounds in 380 were equally good, but got their results in different ways. Anyway, for my two cents I’ll stick with the Hornady rounds.
Oh come on man, I want to hear more about how effective the 22 can be as a good self defense choice. Let him keep diggin’.
DrScooter, FYI…the round through the fuselage of an aircraft, causing rapid decompression, is a proven myth.
I’ll stop digging, the only point was a s 22 can and does kill. Never said it was the BEST defensive round, or even a round you should consider. Fact is it was often carried by trained Israeli Air Marshals, (often Mossad, over rated or not in thier training.) I don’t carry one (a 22) for self defense, I don’t advocate carrying a 22 for self defense, just an opinion from things I have been told, clearly I’m just stupid, thanks, I’ll try to remember that. and stay with the program.
The 22 is NOT an effective defensive round, agreed. However, a 22 has been used and has killed. I’m not trying to make a point, I was just participating in a conversation, clearly I made a mistake.
Cite.