Horror Story: M&P 10 and S&W Customer Service

Have you ever heard that it is risky to buy a gun with a proprietary design, because you may not be able to get spare parts for it if something breaks or wears out? I am here to tell you that this is a very valid concern, particularly with Smith & Wesson products. Here’s the story:

Last year, I got a lightly used M&P 10 on trade at a LGS. Upon range testing, I learned that like many M&P 10s (as well as DPMS’), it was severely undergassed. It would never lock back on empty and suffered very frequent “bolt over” malfunctions. I remedied this by drilling the gas port to a larger size. After that, the rifle worked flawlessly for several hundred rounds. I did notice something strange about the bore though… there was, for lack of a better term, a “ring” around the bore halfway between the gas block and the muzzle. It looked like the same size and depth as a land of rifling, and appeared to me to be machined that way. I thought it might constitute a tight spot in the bore, but I didn’t worry too much about it because the rifle was working fine and accuracy was very acceptable (consistent 2 MOA with Lake City M80 ball). I realize in hindsight that it was a poor decision to keep shooting the rifle after noticing this. Learn from my error! I also installed a Troy TRX 308 free float handguard over a low profile gas block, swapped the carbine stock setup out for a fixed stock, and put a scope on the rifle.

I used this rifle, along with my M&P 40 pistol, in the Pecos Run 'n Gun last year. This is a 6+ mile run through the desert with 7 shooting stations along the way. The rifle was shooting great… I got the best times on several stages using it, including the 400 yard stage. West Texas was experiencing record floods the weekend of the Run 'n Gun, and traversing the course required crossing some standing water that was up to waist deep at one point. I carried the rifle slung in the “low ready” type position across my chest, muzzle down, so the rifle got wet during this crossing. I was always taught to retract the charging handle and shake the rifle muzzle down after getting it wet, so that is what I did. Internet lore has it that this is only necessary on smaller bore rifles like 5.56, but I did it anyway out of precaution. At the next shooting station, I fired at a not-too-difficult 200 yard rifle target. I called the shot good when it broke, but it did not score a hit. The rifle also jammed… a “bolt over” malfunction like it used to suffer when it had too small of a gas port. I cleared it and fired again. Again I called the shot good but didn’t get a hit, and again the malfunction. The Range Officer told me I was hitting way low, like 20 yards in front of me. I thought he must have been mistaken because of how I called the shot, and thought that if I missed, it wasn’t by much. I cleared the jam and fired again. This time I saw the mud fly in the bottom of my FOV… I was indeed hitting way low. Something wasn’t right. I checked the scope mount and confirmed that it was tight. It was then that I noticed the barrel. To my horror, the barrel had a split in it, centered about halfway between muzzle and gas block, with cracks extending almost to the muzzle on one end and almost to the gas block on the other. Amazingly, neither myself nor the RO noticed the split when it happened or for the two rounds I fired through it afterward. I’m not sure exactly why the split occurred, other than that generally barrels rupture due to overpressure, usually from an obstructed bore. My best guess is that a combination of the tight spot “ring” in the barrel possibly in addition to residual water droplets in the barrel combined to spike pressure over what the barrel could handle.

Now on to my dealings with S&W customer service. The first action I took was to call them at their location up in Yankeeland (NH) and ask how much a barrel would cost. I was surprised when the CS rep told me that they don’t sell barrels! I told her that I have a rifle with a ruptured barrel, and that I need a new barrel to get it working again. She told me that while they don’t sell barrels, if I send it in, they might be able to re-barrel it for me. So I got a shipping label from them and sent it off. I heard nothing from them for about 2 months later, when I got a letter that stated that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they would sell me a new rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose contact info was on the letter, and told him that it was fine not to warranty it, and that I would pay for the repairs myself. He said he would need to talk to his superiors about that and get back to me. He also confirmed again that they do not sell barrels. After not hearing anything for a couple weeks or so, I called, left messages, and eventually got a call back from one of their senior engineers. He told me that it is their policy not to replace just barrels, so they would be unable to repair my rifle. I confirmed that they do not sell barrels. I asked him, “so you won’t warranty it, you won’t repair it, and you won’t sell me a barrel? I just have an $1100 paperweight?” He seemed embarrassed to have to tell me this, but he said that yes, that is currently their policy as relayed to him by management. He said that if it were up to him, he would just re-barrel the rifle for a small fee, but that he was being told it is against policy to re-barrel rifles.

The M&P 10 has a proprietary barrel extension and bolt carrier group, and S&W is the only company that makes barrels for this rifle. The rifle is currently in production and there is no shortage of them on gun store shelves, so I know they are producing the barrels for them… apparently they can’t be bothered to pull one from production to help a customer in need, and would rather allocate the part to production, so they can sell another rifle to some other sucker. So here is my warning… if you buy a firearm with proprietary parts, you better make absolutely sure the manufacturer is a company with good product support and customer service. If not, you might risk having an expensive paperweight, like me, for want of a couple hundred dollar part.

Also apparently all the M&P 10s out there will be defunct after their owners shoot out the original barrel, if S&W keeps these policies up. It really baffles me why companies purposefully make decisions like this and accept the kind of reputation it earns them. Well, you are warned – buy S&W rifles at your own risk.

this doesn’t surprise me. Smith and Wesson have some serious management issues when it comes to common sense policy. After the abysmal failure of the M&P pistol line (Supposedly the new models as of 2015 are good to go but that only took 6 years), I will never buy a S&W product again, ashame as it is a classic American company. Sorry to year about you getting ****ed over by S&W.

If a mod or staff member deletes a thread, there’s usually a pretty good reason. It’s also frowned upon to start a new one after the original has been deleted or locked.

I also find it interesting that your story has changed with regards to your dealings with S&W. It’s pretty apparent that your only goal here is to defame S&W. You’ve lost all credibility with me & quite likely, many others.

The reason given for deleting the original thread on this subject was that I didn’t go into how I got the rifle, or about all of the modifications I made to it during my ownership. I have included all of that info in this thread.

What part of the story do you think I changed?

As I have said before, it is fine if you are skeptical about what I am saying… these policies are ridiculous enough that I completely understand if someone doesn’t believe me. Fortunately, what I am saying can be easily verified by giving S&W a call and asking how much a M&P 10 barrel is. 1-800-331-0852.

Your first go around (before admitting to not being the original owner & to the unauthorized barrel modifications you performed) you sent the rifle out & S&W determined that the barrel damage was not due to poor materials or workmanship & therefore they would not warranty the barrel. You then stated that you asked if they would repair it if you paid for it, but that was only after they told you they wouldn’t warranty it.
This time you state that you contacted them & asked them upfront if you could purchase a replacement barrel, at which point they told you “No”.
The whole thing reads to me that you tried to scam a replacement barrel out of S&W & when they told you “No”, you became bitter & is now on a mission to trash them.

I’m not doubting that some parts may not be as accessible as an end user might prefer. I just think you have malicious intent for starting these threads.

I got the rifle back earlier this week. Pics are posted on another site here: https://www.okshooters.com/showthread.php?209913-Horror-Story-M-amp-P-10-and-S-amp-W-s-Customer-Service&p=2699025#post2699025

Way I see it, even if the barrel split because he did something stupid/unsafe, if he’s speaking the truth on S&W not being willing to re barrel or even sell him a barrel, I see that as something I’d want to avoid (as a consumer).

Take Care,

Buzz

This…

The stated intent seems a little hard to miss… early on in the thread link he’d provided for the damage pics:

Well yes… they did screw me out of $1100. I posted this because I think most people who are considering a S&W rifle purchase would like to know about the parts situation. Yes, I am hoping that this will cause plenty of people who would have otherwise bought one of these rifles to change their minds. I would definitely like to make it a losing proposition financially to treat a customer like this.

You posted AGAIN because you’re a charter member of the FSA, expecting others to pay for your mistakes. You’re also one of those folks most Companies don’t want as a customer.

Own up, man up and give it up.

If henschman is pissed now, or when the barrel split, who cares. S&W won’t sell replacement parts. A replacement barrels should cost $250-500, right? Except, because S&W won’t sell one, they offer to sell him a replacement rifle. That sounds like a company policy to avoid.

I had been wanting one of these rifles until now. They used to retail around $1600, now closer to $1000. Not interested if S&W’s parts policy means replacing the rifle when a failure is not warranty issue.

People like me like to keep things simple.

A) You purchased a used rifle and modified the gas port. S&W will not repair the rifle under warranty. That is understandable.

B) S&W will not sell you a barrel. We do not know if the sale of a barrel or other parts will be available to the public in the future. The potential for financial gain through sales versus incurred cost by the company and liability issues will dictate whether or not S&W will sell parts to the public in the future.

It is evident you are frustrated. I suggest you store the rifle and wait to see if parts will become available at a later date. They may not sell barrels to the public, but we cannot rule out future sales of parts to reputable gunsmiths.

To me, this sounds reasonable. My only reservation is that these rifles seem to have been released in 2012, according to the copyright on the AR-10 user manual. If Grant has the ability to get replacement barrels from S&W, there is no issue. I know S&W used to be tight-fisted on their M&P pistol parts.

That’s about what I got out of it. I don’t think S&W “screwed” anyone out of anything.

Cliff Notes: Heads up guys, S&W won’t sell replacement barrels. Take into consideration before drilling holes in yours and playing in the mud with it.

Agreed that S&W hasn’t screwed anyone at all. No question.

But aren’t barrels wear parts? You expect to need to replace them if it’s not a safe queen. Granted, .308 is pricey to wear out a barrel these days, but still…

This is the part from the original post on this thread that I have the most issue with. OP is recalling a discussion with a S&W rep:

“She told me that while they don’t sell barrels, if I send it in, they might be able to re-barrel it for me. So I got a shipping label from them and sent it off. I heard nothing from them for about 2 months later, when I got a letter that stated that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials, and that they would sell me a new rifle for $1100 and change. I called the rep whose contact info was on the letter, and told him that it was fine not to warranty it, and that I would pay for the repairs myself.”

OP owns a S&W rifle and needs it fixed, and S&W won’t fix it at the owners expense? WFT???

This… per my inquiry to S&W regarding M&P10 parts:

“Just wanted to touch base with you on something that just came up. We were all informed by our director that we do not have parts YET, but we planning on having them in the very near future. Thanks for your support!”

They didn’t go into detail as to why they didn’t have them available direct to consumer at the moment, but at least confirmed they planned on changing that soon, which may be helpful info to those currently using their rig or maybe considering it…

Not terribly surprising given that the rifle was modified by the end user and suffered catastrophic damage determined not to be caused by a manufacturing defect. That would be a hell of a liability for S&W to assume.

You came into the conversation late. This is the second thread created by the OP. The first one was deleted because he was busted not telling the whole truth regarding this situation. He changed his story for this second go around. You fell for it: hook, line, and sinker. The OP has lost all credibility with myself and several others who have followed along. There’s no telling what the actual truth is at this point & the OP has also proven that his goal here is to slander S&W with malicious intent. IMO, this thread should also be deleted and the OP be dealt some disciplinary measures.

nvm :slight_smile: