Horror Story: M&P 10 and S&W Customer Service

[b]Administrative note: This thread has been reviewed and discussed by management and with Henschman. It can remain open to allow discussion of the issues that OP is experiencing with the product he purchased, and any further developments or fixes that may develop. It is M4C’s policy to allow such discussion and critical review of a manufacturer product’s and policies as long as there is some foundation to it and it remains within site rules.

It is also M4C’s policy to keep discussions about the topics and issues, not the members. Henceforth, let’s keep the thread about the rifle itself. [/b]

He also tried to get S&W to warranty the barrel FIRST. It wasn’t until after they told him that they wouldn’t give him a free barrel that he requested to purchase one.

*it’s pretty sad that the Staff/Mods allow this garbage to remain open after all that has been exposed. I guess as long as the story keeps changing…

Gas port modifications have been something people have done for years. This should NOT have caused the barrel to split especially considering it did not split AT the sight of modification.

That said, I’ve seen other M&P10 pictures with the barrel split in the exact same spot. I’ve also seen reports of other people noticing the stamping marks inside of their barrels.

I would have expected Smith to replace the barrel too unless they could show proof beyond a doubt the issue was caused by the user.

So OK whatever, they use the “user modification” as an excuse to void the warrant. So sell him a new barrel, he was willing to pay for it.

I’m in the market for some flavor of AR-10 and given Smith is not supporting their rifles with parts, I won’t be buying one now. Especially after seeing more than one picture of a split barrel and stamping issues.

I’m just going to build something using a Aero M5 receiver set so I know I’ve got something I can buy parts for.

A couple of quick questions about the ring you noted seeing in the bore:

Can you confirm its location now that the barrel’s split, and provide pics to get a better look at what you’d described and where it is? The ones you posted elsewhere give an overall impression of the aftermath, but the devil’s in the details.

Given you referenced the ring appeared to be machined, said machining should now be more visible given the tube’s split in half and you’ll have better access to see it with proper lighting. Like the rifling, it’s not likely going to disappear in a blast unless the area in question completely disintegrated.

Also, you indicated you’d received a letter stating that they were not going to warranty the repair because they believed the damage was not due to a defect in workmanship or materials. Did you reference this when you’d spoken with the senior engineer about it and question what they thought happened to it if it wasn’t the result of lacking workmanship / materials? It seems like they would have been able to offer some sort of feedback regarding what they suspected actually happened to it… and given they had it for 2+ months, I’d wager it went through their onsite metallurgical lab - particularly if there were questions of product liability and warranty coverage - so there should be a report of their findings someplace…

OP’s post changed from last time. He believed the so called ring was not due to the stamping issue.
Every report of the stamping issue on the S&W forum has been taken care of by their warranty repair.

I bought an M&P 10 last year, intending to use it for hunting, as well as in the battle rifle/DMR role. I liked its light weight and longer barrel. When I first bought it, a member of another forum told me about a friend’s rifle, and showed me a picture showing how the stamped text on the skinny part of the barrel apparently imprinted itself somewhat inside the bore as well – he asked me if mine had any such issues. Upon inspection, I didn’t see anything like the stamp imprint, but I did notice an odd ring around the bore in one place. It looked to be about the same diameter and height as one of the lands of rifling, but it was simply a ring all around the bore in one spot, about midway between the gas block and the muzzle. I found it odd, but didn’t think anything of it because I had already fired the rifle, and it exhibited very acceptable accuracy and seemed to function OK.

Warranty issue aside, the refusal to sell him a barrel, which they chose to make proprietary and is available no where else, and insist he must buy a new gun has cost smith and wesson any future business from me. I see it as just plain shady.

Please tell me which manufacturers are making somewhat new proprietary 308 AR rifles
and also which of those manufacturers will and won’t supply you with spare barrels when you obstruct yours and blow it up.

That way all of those manufacturers can be trashed across multiple forums.

Pretty sure my HK MR762 falls into that category and its a heck of a lot better and more expensive than the M&P.

You misunderstand. My issue is, customer has their product, regardless of root cause, product does not work, business has part that will make product work, will not sell to customer, and insists customer must buy new product.

This, in my opinion is shady. I do not single out S&W, any business that feels that way would not get my money.

Then again, I usually avoid firearms that I cannot easily get replacement parts for.

OP is conveniently leaving out the comment in his first deleted thread where he found this so called ring NOT to be anything like the stamping issue. Maybe he is omitting this since the stamping issue is now being erroneously linked to the two obstructed blown barrels? As far as I’m aware, the stamping defect has NOT caused any barrel ruptures, only unacceptable accuracy and S&W has taken care of those defective barrels. The folklore of blown barrels is all over the net and being taken as gospel even though I’ve only seen two guys, counting this OP, that have had this occur AFTER FIRING WITH A BARREL OBSTRUCTION.

The devil is in the details and so far the OP has changed or left out different parts of his account. First, he acted as if he sent the rifle back hoping to get it repaired under warranty due to this mysterious ring (the most likely scenario, IMO :)). Then after he was called out for leaving out the fact he bought the rifle second hand, it was operating terribly and he drilled the gas port, only then does he backpedal and say he asked first if they sold barrels before he sent the rifle back.

The other guy on TOS said S&W sent his barrel to Metlab for testing even though his rifle wasn’t covered under warranty either. S&W did this at their expense without obligation to do so. I find it hard to believe S&W didn’t also send this OP barrel to a lab but on TOS the OP insists they didn’t test it. What isn’t clear is if they told him directly they did not test the barrel. OP will not produce the letter he received or explain any further.

So you may say none of that matters even though OP has made it THE issue by posting it. He doesn’t care if you believe his overdramatic, constantly changing tale. He won’t even provide emails or letters to give himself more credibility. I will quote his original post below and you can decide for yourself.

You say S&W either should have replaced the barrel (on a rifle that has been through hell and high water…literally) not knowing what other work the OP has done or what parts were damaged by the kaboom. Or they should just pull a barrel out of production, shorten their WARRANTY supply just to sell to OP after he has literally abused the rifle. Or for any other guy that can’t get his rifle fixed.

I predict when S&W does sell barrels…
Either you guys will be on the net complaining they are too expensive or if they are affordable you will be complaining they are sold out and they should crack the whip on the line ASAP :smiley:

Today’s entitlement mentality…

I have a Performance Center pistol that I put in an ultrasonic cleaner and destroyed the anodizing on the frame. I told them how I did it. They fixed it for free and paid for both direction Fedex - which is way more than I expected. I am almost embarrassed that they did so much to help when it was my fault. I bet if I had an M&P 10 and ruined the barrel they would fix it for me and charge me. Maybe my luck with them has to do with how I said it was my fault up front?

I am glad that the OP posted a second version of this to make others aware of the potentially unobtainable proprietary replacement barrels.

I would like to take this opportunity to be insensitive and point out, had you spent 3 times as much on the HK this would not have happened :stuck_out_tongue:

Krampus

Two points-

  1. A custom barrel would be easy to have made, cost dependent on options wanted and who makes it
  2. S&W has clearly stated that while barrels are not available yet they plan to make them available soon

Upon looking again, I see the ring is actually closer to the muzzle than I previously remembered. It is very close to where the threading starts… Maybe where the barrel widens to form a shoulder for the crush washer. It also appears to be either somewhat shallower than I thought, or worn down somewhat.

No, I didn’t ask them about why they thought the damage wasn’t due to a defect, or what they thought caused it.

So I’m a little confused… is this machined ring halfway between the gas block and the muzzle…

… toward the gas block end of the split…

… or closer to the muzzle…

… or did your barrel have three different machined rings? Just trying to get the facts straight…

Smith & Wesson just posted this in their forum on TOS

Well that’s useless. New pistol grip? Nope sorry, no repair for you!

At their discretion, not a flat “no”. Similar policy to warranty repair with every manufacturer.

If someone jacks up a rifle with crap aftermarket parts and asks S&W to fix it…you know how that could end.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I can see this now ending when the op calls s&w and they say they will replace the barrel and just the barrel for a small fee of $1100. :rolleyes: that would be my luck going from a full rifle replacement for $1100 to just the barrel for the same price.

It sounds like the op did make some progress by s&w updating their polices. Hopefully it turns out well.

You are being melodramatic, it is more like “you drilled into the barrel and slide of your m&p pistol and badly screwed up the gun, no repair for you!” It’s a given that people can swap the pistol grip on their rifles. Hell, they include an accessory booklet with the M&P 10 that shows different furniture available, different triggers available, and etc. Regardless of how many believe that .308 derivatives of the AR-15 should be just like Legos, they are not. In fact i’d challenge you to find a rifle manufacture of AR-15 complete rifles that would ever accept an AR-15 that has had the barrel chopped, re-profiled, and covered in Cerakote back for warranty work.