I am new to shooting and am experiencing the common 2 o’clock muzzle jump. My goal is to eliminate, or at least minimize, that jump so I can shoot faster and more accurately.
I am running a 16" barrel with a Vortex FH, but have considered moving to some sort of muzzle break. I am sure if I do, I will notice more muzzle control, because that is what it is designed for. However, I am worried that I will just be masking the real problem, which is my underdeveloped shooting mechanics.
In other sports, to get better at something, you make it harder to perform the same action, not easier. Smaller rim, smaller ball, heavier bat, more resistance, smaller target, etc. Shouldn’t becoming a better shooter be the same?
A few questions to think about and hopefully answer…
Is it a good idea for a new shooter to use a MB?
Without using a MB, can a shooter effectively minimize and/or eliminate that jump to the point of shooting as fast as the Lamb’s, Costa’s, Haley’s of the world?
Yes, just put in several years hard work and many thousands of rounds in training. There are no shortcuts, you gotta pay your dues. You can benefit from others experience to avoid major mistakes but there is simply no substitute for time behind the gun.
Take the gun you have, the cost of a new muzzle-break and whatever other non-essential items that promise to make you the envy of your local range, a few thousand rounds, and get some quality training.
After that you will be able to determine how much you can do with technique and how technology can help you advance a skill that you will have for life, instead of simply from something stuck to the end of your barrel.
please sir could you expand on why it is never good to use a muzzle brake, I am in no means questioning you, I have never had a MB was just wanting your expert advice thank you for your time
I have to admit, I was surprised at the answer to #3. I am curious if other experienced shooter feel the same way.
Thousands of rounds and years of experience? Really? Controlling that little muzzle jump seems like such a simple thing, I was hoping it was not going to be so cost and time intensive.
I am no expert but I do understand you have to put many rounds down range, in the correct manor to get some proper muscle memory and form for lack of better terms.
I feel that Lambs/ Costas/ Haleys ability to run their guns like they do comes from A)experience B) Technique (ie. grip, stance etc). NOT gear. My guess is that a muzzle break for these guys means very very little in terms of performance.
Instead of looking to pimp out your gun or a cheap fix, I would spend $30 to purchase Green Eyes and Black Rifles. Learn the book cover to cover. IMHO It will help you out alot.
The best advice is to go get some good training. The above mentioned shooters TRAIN civillians. If you want to shoot like them. Go train with them.
What you said is really getting at the heart of what I am wondering. In the case of a skilled shooter, isn’t the gear that is helping them also hurting them in a way. Meaning, if this skilled shooter is using a comp, it may be masking some flaws in their technique. When competing of fighting, you should use whatever gear gives you the biggest advantage. When training and improving your skill set, it seems as though a MB give a false sense of progress. Thoughts?
I am not looking to pimp out my gun or for a cheap fix. I am sorry if you got that impression. The whole point of this thread is that I have come to the conclusion that MB delay real progress, and was wondering if that was wise thinking. Based on everyone’s response it seems like it is.
Most of what I have read on this sight regarding MB’s is which does the best job with muzzle flip. I have not really read much steering people away from them for the reason’s I am saying. Compensators seem like just that; devices that the average joe uses to compensate for their deficiencies.
You must understand, that many in the class of instructors that you mention they have put thousands upon thousands of range, more than any lay person will ever realize. Probably in the high hundreds of thousands of rounds if not millions. Some instructors have witnesses the same number.
It takes a while to get to where you can control the muzzle and put rounds in an effective area at speed.
Quality instruction and lots of practice are the only way.
I see what you’re saying and possibly. But guys like Haley and Costa also shoot a lot of rounds per year. I’d bet somewhere around 70K per year each not to mention dry fire. And they shoot suppressed which typically has much more recoil than even regular ARs.
This is kind of like a daily runner buying the lightest pair of shoes. Can he/she still run well with normal weight shoes?
I agree that a muzzle brake is uneccessary on an AR15. The rifle does not have a hard recoil. But when you install a muzzle brake to deal with any muzzle jump, you are trading it for a louder report, a muzzle flash, and discomfort to any shooter nearby.
When shooting your AR15, from a standing position, lean forward into the gun. Your stance should be just like a fighting/boxing stance, elbows tucked in. When you fire you have room to give just a little and let the recoil go straight back.
So practice, there is no round count, but the more you practice the better and more comfortable you get.
Get quality training – shooting on your own without someone to observe, detect, assess, and correct deficiencies and teach you new techniques will result in a lot of wasted time, ammo, and gun parts wear.
Shoot a few thousand rounds. Tens of thousands is better.
Repeat as necessary.
You’re never going to shoot faster and more accurately until you know HOW to shoot faster and more accurately. That comes from shooting faster and more accurately.
You are not incompetent – you are untrained. The only thing worse is someone partially trained who confuses enthusiasm with competence.
That is the only part I disagree with. I am afraid the compensator will mask or minimize the problems with my technique. I feel that if a person is serious about learning how to shoot, they should avoid shooting with a comp. I mean, if I really wanted to shoot fast and accurate, I would just put my gun in a vice and go crazy. Agree?
I feel that I am doing all of the above, but I still notice the 2 o’clock muzzle jump. I know it will only come with practice, but for you experienced shooters out there (not shooting comps), do you see any muzzle jump at all, and if so how much? I would love to know how might red dot is supposed to behave as I shoot so I can no what to strive for. What I would really love is for a good shooter to mount a camera on their gun so you can see through their optics as they shoot.
Rob,
does your “push push” shotgun technique apply at all to shooting 5.56mm carbines? My appologies if I’m mislabeling your shotgun technique, its been awhile since I read about it.
thanks,
James
You will never eliminate muzzle jump. Your goal, achieved with practice, is muscle memory bringing the weapon back on target quickly. In slow mow, I guess my weapon muzzle goes up, I recoil back maybe an inch, the muzzle drops and I push back on to target.
First practice doing deliberate shots, aim, fire, re-acquire, fire, re-acquire… Do it slow and accurate. If your groups suffer, slow down. Do this and speed will come naturally.
