Exactly. Can gear make a difference? Yes. But just as buying lighter shoes isn’t going to turn me into a marathon runner, putting a few doo-dads on your gun isn’t going to make you a better shooter.
I definitely shoot better with Heinies on my P30 than with the factory sights. But I can pick up my spare P30 – which has factory sights – and shoot it well enough. From a practical standpoint, the difference is probably minor. It’s enough that I’d much prefer the better sights, but not enough that I’d feel like my life was in danger if I had to use the spare gun for some reason.
I have with a coin. Again, I don’t think it is a problem with my trigger control.
Isosceles stance, weight on the balls of my feet, leaning forward, shooting elbow tucked in, support are fully extended with my thumb pointed forward Costa-esque style, pulling back on my forward grip with the little finger of my support hand, butt stock on right pec, bore as low as I can get it, knees bent, etc.
Never hurts to ask, since I dont shoot with you I have no idea why you are not shooting poa/poi
Maybe its just time behind the gun, wet and dry…also a second set(or more) of critic-al eyes. Lord knows thats my “problems” can be attributed to that.
I think we have a misunderstanding of my problem. I am shooting POA/POI just fine, it is just trying to control the muzzle flip after I fire. I am not blinking when I shoot, so I can clearly see my dot move up and to the right. It takes a while to get it back onto target so my shots are not as fast as I would like. My real question is how to control that jump so I can shoot faster and more accurately.
No worries. I don’t think there is any easy answer, and something every shooter has to work on, so I will just keep applying what I have learned and trying to improve.
That pretty much sums it up. I am on the same path.
I started to feel idiotic trying to discern your perceived “problem” but I think it will subside with more repetitition and consistency. If the basic principles are adhered to its only a matter of time behind the gun.
Ok… sorry for the confusion, but are you experiencing 2 o’clock muzzle jump or 10 o’clock muzzle jump?
The first post says 2, but the second post says up and left. Either way, the first thing I’d check if I was seeing a shooter do that is make sure that the shooters shoulders were square, but that’s how I shoot. I’ve yet to go to a class with the likes of Costa and the Magpul folks, so my style might needs some updating.
From what I’ve witnessed, an overly bladed (right) shooter will have the muzzle jump in that direction, whereas if it’s to the left, it’s usually too much back pressure from the off hand. Hope that helps.
How much “pop” are you seeing, and how long does it last?
How much means an approximate distance that the dot travels away from the POA as the shot breaks.
How long does the dot rest at the apex? Does it stay there until you push it back into place, does it rise and hesitate for a moment, or does it just pop up and come right back down?
How long does the dot take to allow you to take another shot? Are you waiting on the dot to fall back into position before you can take your next shot or are you still resetting your trigger?
In the recent “Dry Fire Drills” thread (I think the OP renamed it- I will track it down a post a link) I posted an acceleration drill for maximising grip and stance. I recommend that you go through the drill, working on making sure that everything is technically correct. I have a feeling that you might have a small gap between the top of the butt and your shoulder, which is filled during recoil, causing your gun to bounce upward. I could be wrong, it’s hard enough to trouble-shoot an AR over the internet where pettty much everything is the same, diagnosing a shooter over the net is 1/2 experience, 1/4 clarivoyance, and 1/4 assumption. Lots of room for error and miscommunicaton in there.
There will always be some degree of movement relative to target- the question is how much is acceptable and still be able to meet your accuracy requirements? There is only so far that technique will go and after that technology steps in to take you to the next level. If you want to perform in the upper eschelons of competative “combat” marksmanship, you are going to need a comp/brake, but you do not need one to be a good “combat” shooter. In competition, if a shooter has a device that allows him to have his sights back on target .01 seconds faster than a guy with an identical skill level, fitness level, and stage planning, after a 100 rounds, he will be 1/2 of a second ahead of his competition, and that can be the difference between 1st place and 3rd place.
A brake will help a good shooter perform at a higher level, but they are not “needed” by those that are more focused on functional practical shooting.
Sorry, I meant to say up an to the right, I will edit my original post.
I feel like I am squared up, but maybe I am still a little bladed. I will experiment with that next time I am out.
Muzzle jump direction is based on the rifling spin direction. It is normal, just practice your drill slow and speed will come. Don’t get bent out of shape, overanalyze, and end up overcompensating for it.
Are you pulling the stock into your upper pectoral under your collarbone and pressing your cheek firmly into it??? I am just wondering why it is jumping so much if all you fundamentals are squared away…
The muzzle is going to jump up and in the direction(rigth or left) of the area with the least pressure or leverage on it.
Maybe it has something to do with how much pressure is being exerted on the front and back end???
What rig are you shooting and how is it set up??? How light is it??
I have a Phantom 5c2 on my 6.8 and am not sure if it helps or not but I definately dont get muzzle flip like that.
Is there an M4C regional training group in your area???
I would absolutely agree that you’re better off making things harder on yourself regarding gear use. That said, there is nothing wrong with maximizing your performance with carefully selected & useful items once you know they’re not simply a crutch. You will probably run into some issues if you’re always training with a lightweight iron sighted rig & your go-to rifle has a nice stock, optic, long rail system, muzzle brake, etc.
As for the recoil you’re not going to be able to absolutely control it so you have to make the most of that down time. Get your trigger reset, transition to a different target, pay attention to what your gun is doing, etc. If you watch Kyle’s 2x2x2 & 1-5 drills you’ll notice that there isn’t a noticeable difference between shot-shot & target-target splits. While he’s obviously very fast he’s also very efficient in his use of time & driving of the weapon.
Also keep in mind that you only need to see what you need to see to make the hit. If your goal is all your hits in the A or -0 you don’t need to place all your shots in a tiny group. It doesn’t matter if your rounds are scattered all over the A zone. If they’re in then they’re all good hits.
If you don’t have a shot timer buy one.
One drill that helps me drive the gun on one target is a straight forward as fast as possible mag dump. Watch your sight, call your shots & focus on what the gun is doing. You should be shooting fast enough that it would be impossible for you to spot your rounds on the target so you just focus on the sight & drive the gun. You’ll have plenty of time during the shooting to notice what’s going on with the gun. If you see something & a correction immediately comes to mind you can either try to implement it on the fly or stop, reload & give it another run with the correction. You’ll burn a lot of ammo & it isn’t a drill that I use very often but it’s a good check because you have to be doing everything right to get good hits. You also have a lot of time (relative) to notice what’s going on & what your deficiencies might be.
Rig:
Rock River A4 16" barrel
Larue FUG
Daniel Defense M4 Rail 12.0 FSPM
T1 w/ AD SOCOM Riser
Weight w/ 30 rd mag: 10.4 lbs
I went back to the range tonight with all of what you guys have said in my mind. I felt like I was able to control my dot a lot better than before. I noticed it jump a bit, but it was snapping right back onto target, a lot quicker than before. I think it just comes down to getting the correct information in your head and spending time on the range until that information makes its way from your head to your body to your gun. Thanks to all of you for your input.
