I am asking this in the urban/suburban context and NOT in an ‘all terrain’ solution. Home defense. Room to room, maybe a shot in the yard, etc.
I used to rely on having an AK handy, which I still might, but given the penetration and ensuing legal problems of hitting someone ‘down the street’, have moved to a PCC with 8" barrel in 9mm. I also have noticed that getting a head shot at 25+ yards is now trivial and that is NOT true with a handgun. So… its better and safer to use the PCC.
But, as 5.7 gets near $30/box and maybe that improves, and it shoots flatter at longer range, is there some point where a PCC in 5.7 becomes a better choice especially with near zero recoil, and lesser strength folks in the household can charge the weapon easier and hit a tad better?
Just asking. The latest thread (I could find) was a 5.7/5.56 deal and that’s not in view, nor should it be. (I don’t even understand a comparison to the 5.56 - its not close).
I get the McNamara (you need to shoot a ton to be good) deal, but I find that to be not as active with a shoulder fired PCC and a dot. Pat is referring to the ‘fighting carbine scenario’ I assume in that context.
My “over penetration” concern has nothing to do with a hit, but a miss as stated. If I HIT with a X39, I know I am better off and the subsequent ‘over-pen’ is not the issue. I am concerned with the miss. The x39 scenario in this regard is nearly unacceptable. Thus the move to 9mm.
The current problem is that for my better half, charging the weapon in various circumstances is tough with a blow back (9mm) system. I was thinking the 5.7 is not, AND you gain lower recoil in a light weapon.
Then it is down to lethality on a non-armored perp out to 20 yards. 9mm is better?
Police departments almost entirely replaced shotguns with 5.56 patrol rifles a decade or two ago. I’m not aware of any change in the likelihood of distant bystanders being hit. At normal angles the 9mm is just as likely to hit something a house away, and more likely to ricochet back up when it hits the ground.
5.7 terminal performance is dismal. I do consider it a reliability upgrade over rimfire. The 5.7 only existed to defeat soft body armor, and quickly became obsolete as plate armor became common. But, a gun she is comfortable using is better than one she is not comfortable with or no gun at all.
Have you considered a forward side charging 9mm? Is yours an AR pattern 9mm? If so make sure it doesn’t have an AR-10 recoil spring, I’m don’t know why someone thought that up but it’s terrible.
Why not just use a 5.56mm? A lot cheaper ammo than 5.7 and more choices in weapons. I had the opportunity to test bullet penetration in actual houses. The USMC bought up a couple small streets of houses to expand the training area by Camp Lejeune. We shot from inside and outside with every small arms ammo the Marines had at the time: 9mm, .45, 5.56, 7.62, and 12ga. The 5.56mm had the least penetration.
Great article with good real-life data. A full-auto P90 is one of the funnest guns i’ve shot, but that round sucks at killing things.
To the OP, i’d stick with your PCC in 9mm with high quality ammo over 5.7. I have multiple 9mm PCCs and they are a blast to shoot, and i’d feel confident engaging a threat with mine if I had to.
THAT BEING SAID, if you’re open to ideas, i think 300BLK is a much better option for a small PDW, and they are very manageable to shoot and operate. Probably going to have less potential penetration than 7.62x39 as well. I run an 8" suppressed 300BLK with Barnes 110gr Tac-TX ammo for my HD gun, and my wife and i both shoot it really well. That would be my first choice. But if you don’t want a rifle caliber, 9mm is probably a better choice over 5.7
They are about $600 last I checked. Very reliable, use M92 pistol mags. Factory 30’s about $25 when on sale.
You can move the charging handle to either side or do like I did and buy another handle so there is one on either side.
I have a RDS, light, and green laser on it. Underwood 68 gr +p LeHigh bullets register about 2100 fps over my chrono.
Light, low recoil, cheap, reliable, can mount what you need, cheap & plentiful quality mags, easy to hold with one hand if necessary. It’s also fun.
5.7 was proven to stink in real-world use. Even in full auto by skilled users. No better than 9mm and possibly worse. Consider it a centerfire .22 magnum.
For now we will train to charge the Scorpion and maybe upgrade the charging handle a bit. While I’ll stick to what I have for now, the capability of the 5.7 is radically different to the 22 Mag.
The 9x19 Lehigh bullets loaded hot will do the same thing. So can .300 Blk. And .357 magnum JSP (rifle or ?) and .30 Carbine JSP and others. I was just listing the easy-to-shoot ones.
The 5.7 just seems to have the worst rep of all of those. I’m not trying to pick on the cartridge you’re interested in to just be a jerk. It was introduced, starred in actual life & death plays, and was eventually pulled off stage for poor performance.
And, it’s expensive. And even more expensive than that if you want the top tier stuff. Or you have to load your own.
I personally would choose a 9mm over a 5.7 but its inaccurate to say a 22 magnum is close to the 5.7. A 10 inch barreled 5.7 has significantly higher velocity than the 22 magnum from a rifle length (i.e. 20+ in) barrel. A 22 magnum velocity from a pistol is very close to 22 LR from a rifle.
Admittedly, compared to 5.56 the 5.7 and 22 mag look a lot closer.
Im a fan of 22 mag for small game and such, but for sure, 5.7 is superior all around. As 5.7 is not going away, ammo manufacturers have developed rnds with improved terminal ballistics, but for HD/SD, I’d still take 9mm carbine but even 5.6 PDW has superior terminal ballistics with the right choice of rnd. No doubt, 300blk appears best choice but I personally avoid niche bullets in search of perfection vs $ and availability.
I like the 5.7x28, and I’m glad there are more options for it today in both firearms and ammo. It’s a neat round and fun to shoot, although the current cost makes that a little less appealing than in the past. I’d use it for HD in a pinch, but there are certainly a better options for most. They’ve been covered here already, it would seem.
This is all trending toward becoming a moot point here, though. Now that NM is getting read to make self-defense with a firearm an automatic forth-degree felony, looks like we’ll be switching to sharp sticks for HD…
FN sent us P90’s to test back in the day, to put it simply it sucked on real targets. You know it was bad when the guys using it for real wanted to go back to micro or mini Uzis with 9mm ball.
My home defense long gun is an 11.5 AR in 5.56, backed up by my 6 inch jackal as it has been named in 357 sig with Leighi 65 grain bullets at 2300fps.
I am not advocating for 5.7 and am not adding it to the mix for now. WHile I don’t own a 22 WMR I would think that the 5.7 bullet construction is also a tad different. Most 22 mag I’ve seen are like their 22 LR brothers…