Did you find anything in relation to the accuracy of the KPOS platform?
Is that what you are going with?
I’m interested in the same idea (and I am getting a CZ Scorpion too lol)
Nice article about the PMR30 magazine design and how kel tec solved the rimmed cartridge issue.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/double-stack-magazine-rimmed-cartridges/
I talked to guys that have used the KPOS and they said it is good to go. That it obviously does not increase the accuracy of the pistol in and of itself. However it did increase the practical accuracy as it makes it easier for long shots over a regular handgun.
Sounds good. Thank you. [emoji1303]
81MMCAT beat me to the Coonan answer.
Andy
MAC test 2 of the best rifle caliber PDW’s in this video one in 7.62x39 and the other in 300 blk. At about 12:20 into the video he give the velocities out of both of these guns and they are in the 1700FPS range.
While the 9mm 68 grain +p leighi defense from Underwood out of a 4" barrel is faster at 1800FPS add a few inches of barrel length and I am pretty sure it will be closer to 2000FPS. As you know the .357sig 65grain bullet is at 2100 FPS out of a 4.5" barrel and many people out of a 6" are getting close to 2300FPS.
Combine this with smaller magazine size and lighter weight of the weapon system for the PCC, I think it is proof of concept.
Add a barrel length of over lets say 8.5" to the rifle caliber guns and we start to see an advantage starting to go to the rifles.
But for a covert PDW, I think the PCC, with hotrod new technology ammo is the way to go. Or let me put it this way, even with more conventional I alway thought it could get the job done for this mission.
In all fairness, the 7.62 and 300 BO both run a bullet nearly twice as heavy with a much higher sectional density than the 65 grain .357 projectile.
It really seems that the 7.62x25 loaded with a similar weight copper projectile would be better suited and would also offer higher capacity in the same size magazine.
Andy
If we were talking carbines or rifles I would agree with you.
But we are talking PDW, which to me says range of yes than a 100 yards. We dont seem to have an issue with a 5.56 55 grain or 65 gran out of a 10.5" barrel for firing a light projectile.
If I go up to an 8.5 inch barrel then yes give me my 7,62x39. Go up to 10.5 then please 6.5 Gendel.
But close range covert PDW, I am happy with a 65 grain bullet going 2100FPS
What barrel length do you consider PDW? ~4-6"?
Clint I would say even up to 7" barrel. But I am more concerned with overall length of the weapon and weight. The role is for a covert PDW, carried in a very small bag.I also like the size of PCC magazines for this role unlike rifle mags.
Weirdest double tap I have had
It sounds like you have researched penetration and the velocity is certainly eye opening.
Andy
I just want to clarify this project depends on the Leighi Defense Underwood ammo load at 2100fps.
When it comes to regular hollowpoints, then we don’t see a dimes worth of difference. In this case then give me 9mm, over 357sig.
Have these been tested on feral hogs?
The 357SIG round in 125gr flavor from a full-power maker like Underwood hits ~ 1450fps from a 4" barrel…true .357 Mag velocities. Send that packing out of a longer barrel and you have a decent terminal ballistic profile:
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html
That’s for a 125gr load. There are 115 loads that go even faster.
I have thought for some time that a 357SIG PDW-type weapon would be awesome with the right ammo. I personally would look to the “heavier” grain loadings than the Lehigh ones but that’s just me.
I haven’t yet, but I saw a video where someone on youtube shot a hog with a 9mm.
The advantage that 357 mag had back in the day, came from the higher velocity gave it a much better chance of the hollowpoints that existed back then of opening.
With FBI getting into the testing of ammo, all ammo has become much better and every manufacturer shoots for the same penetration and expansion. So today the difference between calibers is pretty much non existant and will have ZERO effect on the outcome of a gun fight. Tactics, awareness and shot placement will make up 97% of the outcome.
When we shoot something we need enough penetration to hit vitals, and the more destruction of flesh that we can do is better for a positive result.
Everyone here that has hunted knows a projectile drive at rifle speed, creates more tissue destruction.
As soon as Underwood get the ammo in stock, and I get the 2 357 sig Glocks fitted out. I will be going to shoot feral hogs to test my theory.
The 357 sig 65 grain goes 2100fps at least. It is a solid bullet that can’t over expands at those velocities and as a result give us less penetration.
Factory Hornady .357 sig 147 gr XTP ran about 1180 fps over my chrono if I recall from a Glock 32.
That would be excellent SD bullet at that speed.
Update;
357 sig is on hold due to supply issues.
But I am putting together a 9mm test platform Leighi Defense from Underwood. I have seen a video where a guy was getting around 1950fps from a Glock 17. So I am going to step it up to running a Glock 17L barrel in my Glock 34. I also am going to test the Leupold Delta Micro with this gun.
As parts come in and I get it together, so I can take it hunting pigs I will keep everyone up to date.
Yoni,
Which 9mm load of theirs were you specifically looking at (grain, standard, +P, +P+, etc) or were you going to test various ones. Were you also going to look at their “9mm Luger 105gr. Maximum Expansion® Solid Monolithic Hunting & Self Defense Ammo?” I am interested in your thoughts and results on the 9mm ammo, as that is the caliber I use.