Was not considering realities of existing options and designs, just an interest in what .357 mag might offer ballistically in similar PDW barrel lengths utilizing the Leighi bullet vs .357 Sig.
Not sure about PDW length per se, but would like to see a short semi auto .357 Mag rifle for HD and other uses. You can find lever guns all day, semi auto seems to be a unicorn.
Are you implying that the OEM 22 round magazine is unreliable, or that it doesn’t hold 22 rounds? I have one but only load it to 21 as the last round doesn’t want to go in. I am OK with that but if there is a reliability concern I would like to know.
No I have nothing against OEM glock mags and as to the 21 it was my mistake.
I was looking at happy sticks from ETS and SGW reviews, that raised my concern.
Useless post deleted.
Will I went and looked at Underwood .357 mag, the lightest Leighi Defense round they have is 120grn rated at 1700fps from a handgun.
However I also found this review from a 357mag lever gun user.
“I used this ammo to harvest two 8-point bucks in WV using a Marlin 1894 with 18.5 inch barrel. One buck was shot at approximately 20 yards and the other at approximately 35 yards. Both deer dropped stone dead to the ground with only slight quivering. Chronograph testing from the Marlin 1894 was approximately 2100 fps. From a 16.5 inch barreled Handi Rifle, the velocity was approximately 2025 fps.” William Estep from Underwood Ammo page
I am convinced that these fluted rounds driven to around 2000fps or higher, would be devastating out of a PCC.
I am reminded of a conversation I had with the late Jim Cirillo of NYPD stakeout fame. We got talking stopping power and he told me the only weapon that that they had one stop shots with was M1 carbine with 125 grain soft points at 1800fps. They had handguns, shotguns, AR 15, and the M1 carbines and they were the best going for shoot outs in stop and robs.
I’m considering a CZ Scorpion for the same reasons. As we all know, it doesn’t use the same magazines as the Glock handguns.
I am only mentioning it as to follow up on the idea of having a PCC for urban carry vs a rifle. Magazines for the CZ Scorpion carry 30 rounds and one can carry several on his pockets or backpack.
I have run hundreds of covert missions, where discovery would have resulted in a very bad time. Weapons were micro or mini Uzi with a Browning Hi Power in the really old days later a Glock 17. I am a big fan of a small PCC, with the technology of today where we can drive a light weight pistol round to 1900 or more from a 5 inch or longer PCC, I think it has a lot of promise.
CZ Scorpion is a good gun, I would buy one if I didn’t already have a B&T TP9.
Thank you. It’s definitely good to hear the opinion of someone with your experience.
I already have an AR9 pistol that takes Glock magazines, but for some reason I am set on buying the CZ Scorpion.
When is Glock going to make a pistol carbine? [emoji16]
I think you’ll like the scorpion better. The mags were just meant to be.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m sure I will. [emoji16]
Seems likely to me! “The math checks out” as they say. Of course that does not always translate in the real world, but makes perfect sense to me.
2000fps is 2000fps, physics are physics. Then if you add the flat front of the bullets, I think that alone would give good results. Then if we add in hydra junk science with the flutes it can hurt.
Then you look at the jello results it penetrates 17 to 18 inches.
The biggest question I have how much of a difference one might achieve between the 68 grain +p that out of a 4 inch test barrel goes 1800 out of a 5.5 inch barrel I am hoping for 1900fps V the .357 sig 65 grain at 2200 fps out of a 6 inch barrel.
A 68g bullet doing 2200 fps is essentially SBR AR numbers, with a different shaped projectile, so that sounds to me at least like a winner. I’d expect rifle type perm stretch cavity effects seen at the higher velocities. The jello vids of the bullets were impressive. That’s why I had put up this thread a while back:
Some feel it seemed just an ad for Leighi Defense but I’m still really interested in that bullet.
Here is where I am going with this project, as of now.
I am on a waiting list for a Glock OEM 17L barrel once I get that I will run the 68 grain Leighi Defense through a chrono and see what it is.
I have changed my direction as to platform for now and I have ordered a KPOS Scout to fit the Glock
If the FPS are not enough out of a 6 inch barrel, meaning closing in close to 2000FPS. I have found a place in Europe that makes 7.5" Glock barrels. In one of the reviews at Underwood for the 90 grain 9mm +p+ which is rated out a 4.5 inch barrel by Underwood at 1550FPS, one guy says he is getting 1800 fps out of a 10 inch barrel. So if I can get the FPS I want out of the 6inch barrel, then I will go up to the 7.5".
I am now thinking a Glock in a KPOS with a brace, will give me greater flexibility than getting an AR or the B&T.
I know many people here think this bullet is a gimmick, but 2000fps is 2000fps and that if sBR rifle velocity.
A friend of mine talked me out from trying to do this project in 9mm. In .357 sig I will be over the 2100fps and not have to mess with buying different barrels. So the only purchase will be ammo and some more 40S&W mags.
How are the various size of ETS mags in 40S&W?
Don’t quote me on it because I have no experience with it.
But I read somewhere that the Roni (and perhaps the same with the KPOS and similar platforms) is not as accurate. The sights (or red dot) are on the Roni frame instead of directly on the slide (which moves with every shot), so the relation of the sights to the slide/barrel changes constantly.
I would never buy the Roni, one of the top people there is someone I really don’t like.
I will do some research, thanks for the heads up
[emoji1303]
Call me dumb, but wouldn’t a 357 magnum NOT be able to work in a magazine?
That stupid rimmed case seems like it would really mess things up.
I agree, a 357 SIG could be fun.
I am slowly getting everything I need. It seems the country is falling apart and things are not available.
Due to this I am moving ahead with both 9mm and 357sig.
If I remember correctly someone makes a .357mag 1911
Coonan arms made a 357mag 1911