This would be the W223ST Silvertip variety. Anyone seen any testing done on this round? I can find nothing but Winchester ad copy. How similar is it to their XP Deer Season? Midway has a decent (for the current market) price on this with free shipping now.
The bullet looks very similar to the Deer Season. Haven’t used .223, but I can tell you the .308 version of Deer Season does significant damage to deer. My cousin lost a whole shoulders worth of meat because of the blow out.
I was able to find this on another site. About a third of the way down there is some good info someone posted on velocity, accuracy, penetration, and expansion testing.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Winchester-Silvertip-64gr-223-/16-761924/
Man, I really miss Doc Roberts with all these new-ammo threads coming up right now… also wish Molon would update his ammo research.
Thanks for the link. It does look like XP. I had a Weatherby in .308 that favored the 150gr XP. That is a devastating bullet.
Oh he’s around…just not here :dirol:
One of the most epic M4C soap operas IMHO…
Last update I saw to The List was early 2016.
Winchester 64 Grain Defense Tip
This is Winchester’s latest addition to their self-defense lineup of ammunition. It utilizes a 64 grain polymer tipped bullet with a heavy collet crimp at the case-mouth. The base of the polymer tip of this projectile has the largest diameter of any 223 Remington/5.56mm load that I’ve tested and of course the bullet is nickel plated.
A 10-shot group of this ammunition fired from my Lothar Walther barreled AR-15 at a distance of 100 yards had an extreme spread of 1.17”. When chronographed from a 20" Colt barrel, this load had a muzzle velocity of 2892 FPS with a standard deviation of 26 FPS.
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Thanks, Molon–no offense intended, just seemed like between you and Doc there were quite a few new loads that hadn’t been evaluated and several years of no activity.
Granted, ammo development seems to go long periods static then new stuff drops as a cluster all at once…
Would be awesome if someone knew Doc Roberts and could entice him back into the fold- & IMMEDIATELY 86 anyone who starts anymore shit with him or Molon. These guys bring FACTS & INFO and are very needed here. Molon- thank you for coming back, sir.
I have not seen any ballistic testing on it; however looking at what Winchester has listed, there are variations in the design of those particular bullets.
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Silvertip-Centerfire/W223ST
In my opinion this is the same bullet used in the below round without the silver coating.
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Deer-Season-XP
Versus the actual Silvertip that is traditional to Winchester hunting ammunition.
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Rifle/Ballistic-Silvertip
I’ve been looking and haven’t been able to find anything from Doc anywhere since not long after he put up the “Just A Dentist” avs.
Thats a shame. Besides He & Molon, there were a few more here when I came aboard who really knew their stuff, that have been gone for a long time now, due to petty ass troll shit from people who hadnt shot 100 rounds a year in their lives.
Be nice, I haven’t been able to do 100/yr for many years… but at least have the humility to admit I have a lot to learn and seek the “wisdom of the tribe” for when I have the Old Ones squared away and CAN start training more often. 
Back in college, a hundred rounds was ONE very short session… we were usually doing 60-round courses, and I had to do three (two weakside one strong, kind of an “improvised physical therapy regimen” to help gain more use of my right arm) for each set my buddies did.
And YOU my friend, are the way its supposed to be. No need for any explanation…rock on. Youve got a valid reason…the punks I refer to dont.
A quick check on Winchesters site shows quite a difference in advertized muzzle velocity.
.223 64 gr Defense tip, 2700 fps.
.223 64 gr Deer Season XP, 3020 fps.
Barrel length, probably. Molon got enough more than advertised velocity out of Defense Tip with his 20”, that I suspect W chronoed it in a 16”. And they probably did Deer Season in a 24”.
Fusion and Fusion MSR advertised vs observed velocities are another good example of this.
Offtopic: My memory’s shot, but what was the consensus about which of the two Fusions was “preferred” and which was “it’ll do but not as well”? Sorry, estate crap is turning my brain into a scrambled egg even more than usual–just got another recurring bill transferred off my aunt’s credit cards and onto my debit card DAYS before it was due to post next charge.
Doctor Roberts does post in the Ammunition sub-forum over on Pistol-Forum.com.
https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition
I certainly would not wish to have his work schedule. He does say really busy, between his teaching and surgical career at one of the top medical schools and hospitals in the world. But if I got shot in the face, I would ask them to fly me to California so he can work on the damage.
Regarding .223 ammo for self defense, I’ve been split between the Federal Fusion, Speer Gold Dot and the Barnes TSX loads. I do believe Doctor Roberts, Molon and Chuck Haggard recommend that load. I’ll ask them and see what they say.
I agree with 1168 on the Fusion loads. From all my research, they seem to work very well harvesting deer or defending you family against human predators.
Hope that helps.
Off the top of my head, you might reach out to Chris Baker at Lucky Gunner and ask him.
Chris is just a super guy with a great company, and really knows his ammo and tactics. He will not steer you wrong.
I was in a shotgun class with him a few weeks ago, and it was great to catch up. His articles in the “Lucky Gunner Lounge” on his website are a terrific resource.
Hope that helps.
Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot
The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.
Atmospheric Conditions
Temperature: 73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
Barometric Pressure: 29.68 inches of Hg
Humidity: 62%
Altitude: 950 feet above sea level
Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist.
Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist.
10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist. The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.
Left to right: 1. 62 grain Fusion, 2. 62 grain Gold Dot, 3. 64 grain Gold Dot, 4. 75 grain Gold Dot
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