AFAIK the M1903, M1 Garand, and M14 all used 2 stage triggers. The M16 was the 1st US general issue combat weapon with a single stage SA trigger function. Maybe the info I got is bad though. Do you know what triggers the 3 previous general issue guns used?
I guess you should write the Dept of the Army, and Dept of the Navy, and tell them the Geissele DMR trigger is not an acceptable trigger.
Try 10 different Colt triggers with the 3 round burst cam…
On the contrary many new shooters become frustrated thinking they are doing something wrong when its really the crappy equipment they are using. New shooters should have positive reinforcement, and not get discouraged by poor results. Most of the time they will think its them that sucks, and know nothing about poor accuracy because they are battling an 8-10lb stock trigger.
Why would learning irons 1st make one a better marksman? They are two completely different and independent sighting systems that bear little actual use functionality to one another.
I must have missed the 11th commandment that says one cannot learn trigger control with a 2 stage trigger.
How on earth did soldiers learn those concepts with M1903’s and M1’s?
Belmont’s last three replies are dead on…why the heck should you handicap yourself and your gun at any time…be it when first learning or once a veteran. Sounds to me like the majority of the people that call these high quality aftermarket triggers “gucci” triggers or whatever are simply folks who have either not tried one enough to understand the huge advantage they have or folks to cheap to pony up the cash that it takes to get one…then they could not grab the latest vfg or 1 million candle-watt weaponlight:eek:
IIRC, Grant has stated that he prefers a 2-stage trigger for a fighting gun. you should ask him about that…
SOS…
You are correct. The 03 family of rifles, M1 Garand and M14 all have two stage triggers. I do not recall of the 30-40 Krag had a two stage trigger or no
Wait, where did this come from? A shooter will know just when a good single stage trigger goes off just as they would a good two stage.
If a two stage allows a shooter to be more accurate, why are benchrest rifles fitted with single stage triggers?
As you say, there is no reason to be handicapped with a poor trigger. It is after all, the interface between the shooter and the rifle. But you don’t have to spend a lot of money either. A good GI trigger with light stoning, grease and use will give you a good trigger for a service rifle. The advantage of “Gucci” triggers is that they are smoother from the start
Benchrest rifle triggers are measured, generally, in ounces, no?
Completely different type of class of trigger than a USGI vs. 2 stage in the AR platform.
Kinda the same reason you don’t see mirage tapes over barrels and 2ft long tubes hanging off optics on here, single loading, leather hand rests, ect
Im not really aware of a single stage that has proven itself as well as Geissele has with AR triggers. The Match triggers, DMR in use in Mk12’s, SSF’s in socom guns, SSA’s in use by untold numbers of civilian shooters without issue. Ive not seen a single stage set the bar in the AR world as they have. I dont pay attention to service rifle matches or anything like that but on this side of the house…? The WC TTU maybe but even that trigger would be scoffed at by the BR crowd.
Me and Belmont must be turning over a new leaf as I agree completely with the above.
A benchrest bolt gun w. a single stage trigger is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a single stage g.i. trigger.
While some have thrown the stone, polish and grease a stock trigger suggestion out there similar to something like the Bill Springfield jobs, this is the last thing I would ever use in a duty/shtf/combat weapon. First off very few people should be performing trigger modifications as if they were a gunsmith as this is the most sure fire way to endanger your own or someone Else’s life w. an unsafe trigger. Secondly, you have to start w. an already quality g.i. stock trigger when stoning and polishing it as many stock triggers have to rough of contact points to even work with.
I used the benchrest trigger example to challenge the assertion the two stage is a better choice for accurate shooting over the single stage. The simpler design of the single stage trigger means they are easier to tune than a two stage and generally have a better feel.
When you say no single stage trigger has proven itself as well as the Geiselle, I take that you mean none have proven to be as trouble free. From all accounts, that appears to be true.
I will add that for a two stage trigger, the crisp break of the Enhanced is simply amazing
Stock, USGI triggers have probably killed more smelly bearded bad guys than all these other triggers combined. It’s the best place to start.
Belmont31, dude, you need to learn to multiquote…
It really matters little what I say. You are not going to be convinced no matter what I type and I would just be wasting my time. This topic has already been hashed out here and doing it again is pointless. We would just be going back and forth for no reason. Besides, you’ve already got it figured out anyway.
I cannot speak on these so called “smelly bearded bad guys”, however I have heard of 3 Somalia pirates that seemed to hate the Geissele DMR units that were in the Seal’s Mk 12’s on the back of the U.S.S. Bainbridge. I wonder if your standard G.I. trigger would be gtg taking 50-100yd head shots in 5-8ft. pitching seas…my guess is not so much:)
Fun Fact…
Geissele triggers are tested in a mechanical device for 10,000 trigger pulls with the 10,000th rd. feeling the same way as the first.
M193 and 1:12 has killed more bad guys than any other AR round or rifling. Most of those weren’t even chrome lined.
Yet everyone recommends a 1:7 twist with 77grain SMK. I’m guessing because it does a better job, not because it’s killed more people?
I know there are excellent single stages out there. Since this thread deals with AR triggers thats the context I was speaking in not all guns in general or all triggers for all types of guns.
In the AR world there is not really a single stage that has the same level of permformance or the track record as a Geissele 2 stage.
Ok…
And 2 stages have killed how many going back to the M1903 and M1 Garand?