This is my first post on this forum. I’ve been looking at taking a tactical carbine class and need to purchase body armor for the class. It’s been looking for a reason to purchase some and this is a great excuse! Pat Roger’s classes call for a level IIIA vest with level 4 plates. Which brands would you all recommend and which vendors? Thanks for any and all advice.
How about this line of thought.
Get what suits YOUR day to day needs
Far be it for me to tell someone not to buy gear…
Howevercomma i require armor only for those classes where there are more than two people inside the shoothouse- that is, the 5 Day Classes in WV.
I require hard and soft armor. By hard armor we mean rifle plates, and whether stand alone or in conjunction, soft armor with it.
The reason for the armor should be apparent- two man teams in the shoot house mean that everyone has to be very switched on. And, as many receive their initial tactics training from watching TV/ movies or playing computer games, they will often forget their real deal training and lapse into fantasy world.
If i’m going to err, it will be on the side of safety.
You need to be able to shop carefully and wisely for armor, as what you think/ what is advertised may not be what is useful.
Pat, I absolutely agree that wearing armor does make sense. It also mirrors a real world situation because if anyone was in an urban house clearing scenario they would be wearing armor.
I work in a secondary federal law enforcement position so I’m issued armor when needed. As a result I don’t have any of my own. Is it generally better to get a plate carrier like a CIRAS and add stand alone plates or level IIIA soft body armor and add level IV plates?
A CIRAS isn’t a plate carrier. The CIRAS is an integrated soft/hard armor releasable package. It has a fair amount of real estate.
A plate carrier is a plate carrier, and while one can be had with soft armor built in, the reduction is coverage is pretty severe. It has limited real estate.
The Eagle PC/ cummerbund is a pretty slick unit.
Stand alone plates are pretty specific items and my preference is soft armor with in conjunction plates for general use.
Note that i recommend Level 3 Plates, as they are multi strike. There are some Level 4 plates that are multi strike but very expensive- the majority of L4 are single strike.
As I am too old and crotchety to play the latest incarnation of Ghost Recon on whatever do jour game console, I opt to shoot the real stuff. 
That being said, what I said earlier still holds true, get what suits your Day to Day needs. If your need dictate getting a fuller coverage BALCS cut releasable armor setup, then do consider the CIRAS. HOWEVER, bear in mind that this choice will impart a penalty with regards to constriction of range of motion.
NOW, having stated that you are a " federal law enforcement position", does the day to day duties require the wear of concealable armor? What rating? Perhaps a dedicated Plate Carrier (Eagle w/cummerbund) with L IV Ceramic Protection Triple Curve plates will fit the bill, as it could be used ICW your daily wear vest.
That being said, I also believe that you should train with your duty kit whenever possible rather than buying a new setup for a particular class; if you do, make sure that you have enough experience with the rig prior to attendance.
Egg
Thanks for the replies. At work we are issued soft IIIA body armor when needed. They are really plain and don’t have any load bearing features. I was just uncertain how the CIRAS worked. I gave Eagle a call and they were really helpful. Thanks Again - Stephen
bear in mind the CIRAS is an OUTERVEST, exclusive of concealable armor
the soft armor inserts are pattern after the SOCOM BALCS armor which are cut for coverage vice concealbility.
If you run the plate carrier, you add the hard armor capability when needed, plus with the eagle, you can run soft inserts inside the commerbund panels thus increase your level of side protection.
ALWAYS wear softarmor underneath a platecarrier (to mitigate blunt force trauma and spalling)
if you do go the route of the EPC, I would suggest replacing the 550 cord lacing with 3/16 bungee cord as it makes for a more fleixble and ROM friendly platform.
EGG
No, the armor in the CIRAS vest is not “pattern (sic) after the SOCOM BALCS armor”.
It was made for that armor. Ergo, MC CIRAS, RLCS et al.
That particular armor combo was made to enhance user ability to fight. Not sure where your getting your information from.
However, i know where i do…
Ergo…
CIRAS was designed to accommodate BALCS cut soft panels.
…and provide a viable option than the less than optimal issue BALCS covers, while providing a releasable load carrying platform.
If your need dictate getting a fuller coverage BALCS cut releasable armor setup, then do consider the CIRAS. HOWEVER, bear in mind that this choice will impart a penalty with regards to constriction of range of motion.
Enhancing? yes if you are one of HSLD types, whose need dictate an integrated releasable armor/load carrying package. If someone is not one of the above or trains to this standard, then the ‘enhancing’ benefit becomes suspect.
Pat, I do not understand where/why you are getting wound up? In the end, STeed has received some opinions on what to acquire or consider prior to acquisition. If you feel this needs to be further discussed, I would be more than happy to entertain a phone call and frank discussion on gear and conceptual usage.
Best
Darrin (eggroll)
I completed a contract to train those personnel using the CIRAS in its use.
I am confident of my information.
The errornet is that way because of poor input.
I’d be happy to have a discussion when you are signing my contracts 
Pardon my error in judgment in offering a discussion. Please disregard my last then.
Darrin
There’s no need for anyone to be upset.
The reason we are here is to share information and dispel the misinformation that is out there.
Discussion is good, getting upset is not.
OK I have to admit, I’m a newb to the armor thing. I was reading Pat’s class announcement and thinking about next year-I’m about tapped out of training dollars for this year.
For us newbs what is BALC?
How is it different thatn CIRAS?
Why does Eagle offer a Maritime version? The squid in me is dying to know.
BALCS = body armor load carrying system
actually a system component under the SPEAR program of the late 90’s, has been reduced to the generic ‘name’/reference for that particular style of cut pattern.
the CIRAS is Eagle’s answer to the question of a releasable armor “CARRIER” that is designed to accept BALCS cut panels whether they be mil issue or civilian.
It is markedly better in several areas over the original BALCS cover. 1) Single point Pillow Releasable - once deployed the ENTIRE rig will dissassemble thus freeing the wearer of additional weight and obstructions. A necessary functionality for those involved in water/heloborne activities 2) PALS coverage so that you can carry ammo, water and a slight amount of pogey line bait. 3) Better degree of construction, far more secure method of plate retention.
While there is a superficial resemblance between the two, about the only shared commonality between the Eagle CIRAS and Paraclete RAV is the releasability feature.
So what does that Mean?
BALCS = Issue special operations-centric soft ballistics and hard armor with carrier
CIRAS = Eagle’s releasable BALCS armor carrier, designed to carry BALCS cut soft armor panels that are either mil or civ in origin.
RAV = Paraclete’s releasable armor carrier
There are two variations of the CIRAS, a LAND (with cummerbund) and a MARITIME variant (with no cummerbund).
As far as why there were two variations and why certain organizations opted to go the Maritime route is info I am NOT privy to, nor do I claim to know.
RLCS, based on open source information is the RANGER load carrying system, which by all appearances seems to be the RANGER GREEN variation of the KHAKI MLCS system, aside from that obvious difference, I am hard pressed to note the differences between the two aside from differences in material and hardware color.
Then you can add all the ‘other’ xLCS systems currently in or already out of development from Eagle…
Tired yet? In the end, its all nylon… cordura with secureTack stitching
let me reclarify
BALCS is an integrated system that was part of “SPEAR” program that consisted of a backpack system (um-21) produced by Gregory and Bianchi, the body armor package (Ceradyne) and finally the ELCS (enhanced load carrying system) by safariland.
first appeared in the 1998/1999 timeframe.
Confused yet? 
Egg-
Thanks for the details. I didn’t know any of this and it really helps. Eagle mentioned Protective Products as a source for armor inserts. I was going to give them a call. Do you have any other vendors to recommend?
Stephen
STeed
PPI is what I run in my CIRAS, dont have a PoC for PPI but they had been recommended a few times over and when the opportunity came up, pricing seemed reasonable and I acquired a set for my “dont shoot me” vest
Please dont take what I said earlier as any sort of an attack or attempt to sway a “not to buy” decision, but the CIRAS option comes up ALOT in certain AR forums, namely because its the ‘coolest’ thing/CDI gadget around. And many times over people dont consider the options or use/functionality implications of what a particular platform may incur or have for a particular user. While it is a decent platform for what it is designed to do (I believe it does a better overall job than the RAV) the CIRAS is not for everybody.
In your case, you may want to revisit the Eagle Plate Carrier with cummerbund to be used in conjunction with your duty protective vest.
If you would still like to go the BALC outervest route, you may want to investigate the LE variant of the CIRAS… essentially the same overall planform but without the releasable function and commensurately lower overall price.
Either way, give Ben Lenett ben.lenett@eagleindustries.com a call and see what he can do for you.
Cheers and best of luck.
Darrin