I’m going to be building a new .308 bolt gun on a hardly used 1970’s Remmy 700 action. Barrel is going to be 23" (couldn’t decide between 22" and 24" so I split the difference) and threaded 5/8-24. I just can’t decide on whose barrel to use. My thoughts currently:
Pac-Nor Heavy Palma countour Super-Match Stainless (They make Noveske’s barrels so I’ve heard): 1:10 Polygonal or 1:11 5 groove
Rock Creek M24/M40 countour: 1:11 5R
I’m kinda leaning towards the Pac-Nor 1:10 but I’m thinking the twist is a little fast. Going to be only shooting 168’s & 190’s a little and 175’s a lot.
One vote here for Schneider. It was recommended by the man that built my M40A3 clone. Builder recommended 1:12 and there have been no problems with 175 Matchkings out to 1k. I haven’t tried anything heavier, either supersonice or subsonic so I can’t speak to that.
Like everything, barrels are an individual choice. If you go with a top notch maker than you’ll more than likely be fine.
I use Krieger, have had great success. They also do 5R rifling under license now too. Mine is a standard Krieger, went with 1:11. Had them chamber to my supplied bolt. It’s a tack driver, I’ve gotten it under .5", which is amazing with my average shooting. I’m waiting on my President’s 100 buddy to really wring it out.
If buying a new barrel and intending to shoot primarily 175g SMK, I would not get a 1:12 barrel. It may get it done to 1000, but it may also not have the same spin stability past that where it still would have the energy and velocity to keep going. Some people say 1:11.25 (like my gunsmith Moon Roberts told me) is the sweet spot for 175SMK, certainly there is no issue with 1:10.
You see 1:12 in a lot of factory Remington barrels, and I think it is fine for 168g SMK’s which happen to not be very stable into the transonic anyway.
At least… that’s what I’ve been told by various people. Some of these things are harder to get a first hand grip on
You mean they are the “flavor of the month” which is required to be on your rifle if you are to be accepted into the “cool kids club” on snipershide? … because that’s all it is.
Twice in the last 3 months I’ve punched a group in the zero’s with benchmark barrels during load development.
Every single top end barrel manufacturer has the capability of producing record-setting barrels. To claim one better than the other based on the number of people using them is as flawed of logic as I’ve seen. Every brand listed thus far is in use in benchrest competition… where REAL accuracy counts on paper, and the brand of barrels that are winning certainly aren’t necessarily the same ones you see the “pro’s” using in tactical matches. The old “boring” companies like lilja, brux, and obermeyer can be found winning. Not because they are necessarily better than the rest, but because that’s what the winning shooters happen to have on their rifle at the time they win.
These days I shoot benchmark, because they are readily available, easy on the wallet, and have been shooting amazingly well.
To say one top barrel manufacturer is better than all the rest is purely subjective, totally impossible to substantiate, and has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than picking the brand approved by the cool kids club. A barrel will either shoot, or it won’t. Brand won’t make one little bit of difference if your rifle shoots bugholes.
I’m also curious what you base this on. There’s no doubt Bartlien makes quality barrels, but is there some data you can share to show that they’re “really top of the heap right now” or are you just basing this on what the current fad is?
I’ve had guns in the last couple of years with Benchmark, Brux, Krieger, and Obermeyer barrels and they’ve all shot great. Any of the top barrel makers will turn out a good blank.
I would be more concerned with who’s going to chamber and fit the barrel then who’s making it as long as it’s a quality barrel. A factory Remington barrel will usually shoot almost as good as a custom barrel if a good gunsmith trues the action and refits and chambers the barrel correctly.
Most of the top rifle makers and most of the top shooters are shooting Bartliens for a reason. Any one can make a good barrel, but apparantly Bartliens are making more consitant barrels than Kreiger right now. Its not some flavor of the month… You got lucky with your benchmark, congrats. Does every one they put out shoot that well? Out of 1000 barrels, how many don’t shoot, Vice Bartlien or Krigers? There is a reason people use certain gear, and its not always sponsership.
People who have more shooting experince and reputation than just about anyone on the globe… say this. Guys who shoot hundreds of rounds a week through their PR’s, who have owned or own many different brands say this. No one is saying you would be undergunned with a Brux or Obermeyer…or even a Creek. They are saying that they get more consistant shooters with Bartlien, and the gain twist is not offered by many other manufactures.
while i agree bartlein is top of the heap at the moment (which is not to say kriegers can’t be just as accurate, but there is more to it than just accuracy), there is a lot behind the scenes on those numbers and i wouldn’t use that thread to base a lot of decisions on.
1st, understand that it was a single match and despite the fact that there were 50 of the best tactical/practical shooters in the country there, that match is about 90% mental and 10% equipment and in a tight race, one shot can move you up or down a lot in the rankings because of the way that match is scored. The shooters won, not their gear. And despite the difficulty of the course of fire (e.g. almost all the 1000 yard shots were taken from standing), probably 70% of that particular match was paper inside 100 yards. every gun there was capable of hitting 3" shoot n see at 70 yards, but 20 shots in 2-3 minutes from 5 different positions, half weak side, climbing through the mousetrap is really a test of the shooter, not the rifle.
2nd, team sponsors determine equipment, more than opinions of the individuals. the team surgeon guys shoot krieger barrels and the team GAP guys shoot bartlein barrels. it’s not a coincidence that there were 5 surgeons and 3 gaps in the top ten and 5 kriegers and 3 bartleins in the top ten.
it would be a mistake to draw any conclusion from that other than one team shot better than the other on that weekend.
that said, this i why i think they’re top of the heap
The uniformity in our barrels and finish of the bores is second to none. Our rifling machines are so accurate, we can carry the twist rate to the 4th decimal point (example: 11.3642). The process of Single Point Cut Rifling is the most stress free way to rifle a barrel. The twist is exact, where as other forms of rifling can have variances due to the process they use. Also, the bore and groove dimensions are more uniform.
I agree with everything you say. I was basing my assertation off a culmination of things, that Write up being one. Other people I highly respect and value their opinions, and a large segment of the tactical/practical shooting community seems to have a consensus. Most of those guys sort out which gear works, and which doesn’t real quick. Its an expensive sport/hobby, and guys don’t like it when they think they are lossing beacuse of subpar equipment (not that the other makers are subpar).
I had 110’s sub-moa before. I think it has more to do with the chamber and how you’re loading them than it has to do with the twist rate. I didn’t spend a lot of time on it though. I tried 110’s out of a factory 1:12 sps varmint, and it was horribad. Same load from a benchmark 26" 1:10 was 1/2 moa.
As I said, I spent very little time on the 110’s though. Not much experience with them.
