Which AR-15 Kit?

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
1

I’ve decided to built my own AR-15 from a kit. I would be grateful for information from those who know, ranking various suppliers of parts, kits, complete barreled uppers, stripped lower receivers, etc. I don’t even have a budget yet because I don’t know where that sweet spot is before the diminishing returns kick in. I’m handy with small tools and don’t feel threatened by the challenges of the actual build. I’m just trying to decide how much to spend for parts and whom to buy them from.

I do want a well-made, reliable weapon, but I do not intend to put 5000 rounds a year through it. I have other rifles I shoot like that, but that’s not what I intend to do with the AR-15. My main reason for getting an AR-15 is as a reward/incentive for my son, who has enlisted in the USMC delayed entry program his senior year. He wants to get familiar with 5.56mm before boot camp, so I offered him the AR-15 as a prize if he could score over a 250 on his PFT, put 3000 carefully aimed rounds through paper with a .22, and memorize his ranks, codes, jargon, rules, etc. He’s at 247 on the PFT and is close to the other goals.

So on the one hand this isn’t an AR-15 just to sit in the safe, nor is it about TEOTWAWKI on the other (though a bit of anti-statism is lurking in there somewhere). I just want something that isn’t junk, gives my son a good feel for 5.56mm, and perhaps takes my libertarian 2nd Amendment sentiments to the next level just a bit (I already have a safe full of fun stuff but no evil black rifle yet).

2

This is what I would do:

Get these:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M16-Government-20-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-gov-20.htm

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR15-Charging-Handle-BCM-p/bcm%20charging%20handle%20ar15.htm

http://www.newriverarms.net/product-info.php?pid110.html

Now all you need is an A2 stock, Lower receiver, and LPK…at least this is the route i’m currently taking. The LPK is going to be the biggest problem, they are out everywhere.

3

ive never seen a “kit” that i would pay any money for. if you want something that’s purely an instructional gun that isnt gonna cost a lot of money, Stag (CMT) makes probably the best “cheap” gun, in my own opinion. CMT parts are consistent, and any lack of staking can be fixed with a $10 spring loaded punch from a hardware store.

the only advantage to assembling your own gun is that you get to source your own parts. if you’re not interested in personal selection of parts based upon desirable criteria, you might as well just buy something. stag m4geries can be had for under $800

4

Look at bravocompanyusa.com and gandrtactical.com and look for parts from BCM, LMT, or the G and R Tactical line… Anything you get from them should be good to go. Depending on options you should easily stay under 1K. Probably the easiest route would be a BCM complete lower and barrelled upper.

5

Some other great sights to look for parts at are:

Aim Surplus
Peach State Guns (LBR lower for less than $100)
Brownell’s
Del-Ton
Rainier Arms

Just to name a few

6

BB,

Here’s my thoughts. Right now instead of trying to get the parts to build one I would look for a Colt 6920, Daniel Defense M4 or XV and be done. I believe that the latter is retailing for around 1200.00 or less.

Another option would be the BCM or LMT complete lowers for about 350.00, a 16" Bravo Company upper for approx. 475.00 (when available) and a BCG for about 150.00. Add in the handguards and you are around 1040.00 or so.

7

I have to go along with Iraqgunz on this. As your son is rapidly closing in on your benchmarks, time is a factor. Given the recent market for all things “Black Rifle” related, waiting for the various parts may take a long time (possibly months,) especially if you’re going for quality mechandise. A complete rifle might be a better choice for you. A Daniels Defense XV or an LMT Defender, if found in the $1200 range would be an excellent, high-quality, basic M4 carbine.

I went the LMT route, myself.

8

Don’t think the Colt 6920 is out of reach. Deals can be found. I just picked one up for $1175 :D.

9

As best I can Google it, y’all are recommending guns at the top of the food chain. For my purposes is this really necessary?

If I “settle” for something like Stag or CMMG or Bushmaster, do I get a truly dog of a gun, or is it like settling for a Remington 700 instead of a Dakota Arms?

10

I think you’ll find that most here don’t buy into the “just as good as a…” concept when it comes to fighting rifles. If your willing to spend $800-900 on a rifle then there is no excuse not to save up a little more and get something as close to the TDP as possible (i.e. Colt, LMT, BCM). In the end it is up to you. If it’s just going to be a plinker then by all means get the Stag or a Bushy. If you envision ever having to depend on it to save your life then spend the extra coin.

11

I don’t buy into the “just as good as” idea either.

I think I’m hearing you say that the difference between an $800 AR-15 and a $1500 one is about always going bang rather than about fit and finish. I think you’re saying that buying a Colt or LMT is about buying a “real” AR-15, not an over and beyond one, and that $800 versions are in fact sub-standard, corners cutting, examples of the blueprint.

My Remington 700 always goes bang, never mis-feeds, and shoots sub MOA with good ammo. It’s been on many hunts and never lets me down in the field. True enough, it isn’t a Dakota Arms or Cooper, but it is still a “real” rifle, made to blueprint and cutting no corners with regard to the fulfillment of its design. I think you’re saying that no one makes a Cooper-level AR-15: that a Colt or LMT AR-15 is just a “real” AR-15, and Stag, etc. are sub-blueprint.

12

If you aren’t going to spend the money for a tier one gun and cheap out and buy the Stag, Bushmaster, etc plan on making investments in the future:

-gas key will need staked

-you may have to upgrade the extractor with a new kit (many will tell you to just ditch the whole bolt because it isn’t MPI, etc. but if nobody’s life is on the line with it, keep it and replace it WHEN it fails)

-after-market stocks aren’t going to fit the commercial buffer-tubes so you may have to replace it if you want a different stock

-your chamber may or may not be 5.56 NATO and you may not be able to run 5.56 ammo through it. The remedy is to have the chamber reamed by a competent smith so that you will be able to run both kinds of ammunition.

From what I’ve seen, CMMG makes some of the better second tier AR15s. Their barrels are good and have NATO chambers. I’ve seen several BCGs from them that have been staked properly and some that haven’t. I do believe they give you the option of an M16 BCG that has a black insert. CMMG also allows you to somewhat customize the gun on ordering. You can get middy gas systems, different stocks/grips, and have quad rails installed. For the price of a factory CMMG, though, you can add $200 and get a Colt 6920.

If you do want to put it together yourself, I highly recommend buying whatever lower you can find, a quality LPK, a Bravo Company stock kit, LMT rear sight, and waiting for Bravo to get F/A BCGs and BCM uppers in stock. You’ll end up with a GREAT carbine and have a few hundred less than the Colt in it.

13

I’m obviously no expert(first post), but after months of reading about ARs, this is exactly what I’m planning on doing. Bill, you mention the difference of $800 and $1500, but in reality, if you go the way tyler mentioned, it’s really more like a difference of $800 and $950. I’d definitely spend the little bit extra and get the tier 1(BCM).

14

To the best of my knowledge, the USMC does not issue M4’s. If you’re going to be giving it to him so he can familiarize himself with the weapon he will be issued, then you need to put together a M16A4gery and not an M4gery. I’m just sayin’ …

15

Thanks. Good heads up.

16

The cost difference between a “substandard” AR and one that meets/exceeds the requirements of the military is quite a bit less than you might think.

You don’t need to settle for anything less.

Since you are a member here, I suggest the following course of action:

  1. Contact Grant at http://www.gandrtactical.com/
  2. Ask him for the member pricing on the Daniel Defense XV M-4 carbine.
  3. Send him your $ and wait for package to arrive at FFL.
  4. Enjoy new rifle that meets/exceeds the military requirements.

I am a very loyal and satisfied G&R Tactical customer and recommend them with no reservations whatsoever.

~tp

17

I do believe the OP was specific that his criteria was not for a “fighting” carbine/rifle. The problem is that we have become so “snooty” here on M4C we can’t seem to assist someone with purchasing a reasonable quality firearm that meets a budget. Like it or not, Noveske isn’t the answer to everything.

For the OP’s stated needs, he will be looking for a 20" barrelled flattop upper, since his son is going into the Marines. This negates many of the issues associated with the M4, such as buffer weight, carrier type, extractor tension, and castle nut staking. The carrier key needs to be staked properly, of course. For a young man going into the Marines, I’d be happy to do it, if it doesn’t come properly done. I have a MOACKS.

Any stripped lower from a well-known manufacturer will work. The CMT and RRA LPK’s are reasonably priced and will meet your requirements. I have no clue where to tell you to get your buttstock, as all of mine are collapsible, but I’ll bet you could find some good used ones for a reasonable price on the 'net. As for the upper, I would suggest going with a complete upper, if possible. Stay with the upper end of the tier 2 manufacturers such as Superior Arms, RRA, Stag, or CMMG. 4140 steel for the barrel will suffice, as will a 1/9 twist rate. Although, if possible, I would go with a 1/7 twist. Your optics will be another story. I don’t know of anyone who makes a decent TA31 ACOG clone. But then, I don’t know if the USMC teaches the use of the ACOG right off the bat, so a decent quality removable carry handle may be in order. You can find reasonably priced used Colt handles on the 'net. My local dealer even got a bunch in stock.

All that being said, BCM is an excellent value for the dollar. However, I have had good luck with RRA. I have four of their uppers and have never had any issues running M193 or M855 ball through any of them. I even put Mk262 Mod1 through one of them and it was quite accurate and no pressure issues. They are all M4gery’s however, which I did the standard staking of the carrier key, replaced the extractor spring, and staked the castle nut. I have shot as much as 300 rounds in under an hour through my RRA’s, without issues, so for the purposes of the OP, it would be a reasonable choice.

I hope that helps.

18

FYI - the word Noveske was not in this thread until you put it here.:wink:

19

FYI - the Marines in Afghanistan are using M4’s… lots of them.:wink:

20

I knew joining this forum would get me in trouble. Now I’m going to have to buy two guns, an A4 and an M4. :stuck_out_tongue: (Now I need to think about how to discuss this with my wife . . . )