I read John Kiriakou’s book and communicated with him a few times. I don’t always agree with him, but I “get” where he’s coming from much of the time. He was also much higher up on the food chain and in CIA and there longer, than Bustamante, who I agree with almost never:
"Two former CIA officers sit at the same table and discover they agree on almost nothing. John Kiriakou opens with the story that sent him to prison: cables coming back from the secret sites where doctors — colleagues grimly nicknamed “Dr. Mengele” — revived Abu Zubaydah so the torture could continue, nurses fainted mid-session, and a senior officer was quietly escorted out of the White House on suspicion of blowing the whistle on the secret prisons. Kiriakou went public instead, and was charged with espionage for naming an agent whose profile was sitting openly on LinkedIn. The charge was dropped, but he did the time anyway, and two of the FBI agents who arrested him later called his attorney to apologize, saying it was a political case and they were ordered to do it.
Andrew Bustamante, who joined the agency after Kiriakou left, takes the other side of nearly every question, and the compilation becomes a genuine debate. They collide over Edward Snowden — “he is a criminal, man,” Bustamante insists, while Kiriakou argues no fair trial is possible — over the NSA whistleblower Tom Drake, who followed every protocol and lost his family, pension, and career anyway, and over whether metadata collection is a tool against terrorists or the scaffolding of a police state. The sharpest moment lands when Bustamante says out loud what most officials never will: the government does not work for us; it exists to continue itself, and it sees Americans as engines of economic development. Kiriakou calls it ideological hogwash — and the argument only escalates from there."
I’ve never heard of Kiriakau but have heard Bustamante on several podcasts and generally disagree with him. But I think he is spot on with this statement.
For evidence, I’d like to point out that most federal cops only exist to enforce one type of law. That is, that it is illegal to harm the gov’t or a member thereof, or to avoid taxes. And it is legal to do things that would otherwise be illegal, if the purpose is to protect the gov’t or enforce taxation.
The one that gets me is that it is illegal to lie to a federal agent and is generally charged just to hem someone up. But agents can lie to you all day long. Best to just keep your mouth shut to avoid inadvertently getting yourself a federal charge.
I’d listen to show for context as It’s clear Kiriakau cares far more about individual Liberties and keeping the government in check compared to Bustamante. Kiriakau is a highly experienced CTC CIA guy, best known for refusing to be involved in the “enhanced interrogation” techniques with terrorists, and did time in prison for being a whistle blower.
I don’t have any issues with terrorist getting put through the wringer . I do wish the USA would follow the methods that are used in Israel against terrorist playing mind games to break down the terrorist rather than water boarding or other means.
I think they both acknowledge that Israel doesn’t play as many games as the USA does . We tend to know our enemy a lot better
I listened to the show and was astonished at some of Bustamante’s statements- the one mentioned above about the government not serving the people was a brag, not a derogatory statement. His most egregious comment was how our rights are granted to us by the government (which Kiriakau didn’t push back on enough). Another was that America is defined by its government and not its citizens- continuity of government above all else. I don’t know why any anyone gives that guy a microphone to spew his nonsense.
Now ya got it! Kiriakau a bit of a lib on some issues, but he’s clearly his own person, leans Libertarian on other issues, while Bustamante took ib the agency line to the max. Kiriakau was way higher up on the food chain and highly experienced too. His book was a good read.
We need Hard Charging Young Men where the rubber meets the road and We need Jaded Elders to evaluate the situation balanced by Experiance to send those Young Men to be successful at their Jobs.
What you are seeing here is what years of experiance does to a thnking Man,.
I’m not backing Bustamante whatsoever, but I think what he was trying to say and said it badly, was that our rights are enforced by the US government. Without the government, our inherent rights don’t really mean anything when it comes to foreign governments or people. So in a roundabout way, our inherent rights come from our government existing and enforcing them. Without the government, sure, our rights are still inherent, but without enforcement can and in most cases, would be infringed upon.
On the second point, the same point follows suit. No government to define what the the USA is, then other governments wouldn’t really care what they were. Like we didn’t really care what a group of warrior tribesman defined themselves as, but were made more defined when there was an actual Zulu nation that defined it.
Sure, the government should work for the people which I think both agreed upon. Other than that, it was who came first, the chicken or the egg.
I would have no issue with John Kiriakou being in prison the rest of his life. I don’t mean a civilian prison either. His mouth is far too big.
Delta, sEaLs, 22, any of those guys that want to talk need to have a sit down with legal before they open their mouths. They were brought on board to keep secrets, not run their mouths and try to get rich. If the military retirement package isn’t good enough for them, they can take up a job like every other person who retired from the service.
