Read this and respond. What would you do?
http://www.ncgunblog.com/2013/06/03/it-is-really-hard-to-walk-away/
Walk away. And demand a refund.
And if the guy is a NRA certified instructor, I’d drop a note to the NRA.
Complacency regarding gun safety is just as deadly as carelessness.
I think he did well, all things considered.
I’d have walked away.
And people I know wonder why I bought plates for classes. Imagine this for a second… that’s only the muzzling that you “see”!
His decision was appropriate, and I would think a refund in some manner would be appropriate as well. I’ve been to several “less than tier 1” instructor classes, and I’ve heard and seen some dumb things from them. However, they never showed the blatant disregard for safety as described in that article.
I’ve never been in that situation (thankfully), but he did the right thing period.
The lost time/money/effort sucks… but getting shot in an ND incident would be MUCH, MUCH worse.
I can always make more money. I can’t get “un-shot” or bring someone back from the dead.
It’s too bad all the students didn’t join together, by taking a break, until the issue was addressed properly by Bob.
It seems to be just another example of somebody who thinks he’s too big to admit he did something wrong. Being a veteran has nothing to do with it. It’s a character issue.
My father has taken his Handgun 101, 201, and 301. My mom took his Handgun 101 class (in her late 60s) and endeared herself to him by both giving him crap right back, and for shooting the class with dad’s full size Cold 1911 Special Combat. He really liked the little old lady with the Scottish accent who never missed with the giant chrome 1911. Yeah, my mom is cool.
That’s the part that get’s me… this guy didn’t come about this behavior all of a sudden. No one knew?.. No one saw the “NO REFUNDS” in the online signup.
Obviously, they had to leave but damn they certainly had the opportunity to avoid it in the first place. Situational awareness. They even knew the guy’s demeanor and general personality traits. He owned a gun store… I can guarantee if you go in his store you will see how he handles guns. In fact you are probably hard pressed to go in a gun shop and not see someone swept with a slide locked gun.
Yes, you have to leave but damn… use your friggin’ brain before you part with your money especially when the signup says “NO REFUNDS” and you know up front you are dealing with a loose canon personality.
They learned a frustrating and expensive lesson the hard way. The guy owes them something… how they work it out though, who knows. You can’t say no refunds, Follow rule 1, then endanger people’s lives by breaking rule 1 and telling them to ignore it.
With all of the quality training available here in NC, the first mistake was driving up to PA.
Agreed.
If they were set up with Tigerswan, it’s good to know they won’t be making that mistake again.
There are much better ways of doing things. Blue guns, inert guns, chamber flags combined with separation of all live ammunition including checks by another that the student isn’t carrying live ammo are all tools to be used to ensure safety.
Just hoping a round didn’t get introduced isn’t one of them.
Just off of the guys jerky tough-guy bullshit attitude I wouldn’t have enrolled in his class. I can’t stand people that act like a buffalo in a china shop. These are typically the weakest most incapable people you’ll meet.
I would have left.
Ammo is too expensive to waste only to be fired in a miserable unsafe situation.
Right? From what i’ve seen, NC is like the Meca of good training in this country.
He and his brother had better restraint than I would have displayed in that situation. The first violation, he would have gotten an earful, loud and clear. 2d offense, packed up, obtaining as many eye witness statements or contact numbers as possible prior to departure, pop smoke, then a letter off to the NRA, then lawsuit to get money back, then plaster it on every gun forum.
It is a reason that you really have to vet instructors. I will not attend a class unless it’s from a well known SOF or extremely vetted civilian instructor that has a strong firearms & instruction background, including AARs or those in the training section of this forum. There are so many Vets trying to open up a shoot school while having no clue what they are doing. Much respect for anyone willing to put his ass on the line for this nation, but it does not excuse his piss poor gun handling. Kicking in a doors for 2 or more tours does not qualify one to teach civilians how to shoot. FYI, there are dick heads in every service and have witnessed them in action across the board. No excuse.
And now a few defenders of this instructor have been posting responses on the guy’s blog with a combination of the “you’re a whiney, know-it-all bitch” and “Big Boy Rules!” defenses to try and rationalize the actions of this “instructor.”
They absolutely did the right thing by leaving. And they did the right thing posting their experiences to warn others of this “instructor’s” unsafe behavior and attitude.
I would have walked. The author handled it as well as he could have.
My instruction up to the point has been with high quality instructors and not once have I felt unsafe. I wouldn’t hesitate to point out a safety issue, regardless of the instructor.
I usually dip, duck and dodge away when someone muzzles me in a class. I’m just acting out of pure self preservation and the muzzler usually sees their error and corrects it. If more than once or twice, I’m done.
It would be fun watching the instructor get all riled up from everyone instinctively ducking whenever he acts carelessly. 
It’s sad because it should never happen in the first place.
I would call the person out on it. First politely - “Please do not sweep me with the muzzle of your firearm again”… then if they do it again - “I mean it, do it again, and I’m going to hold on to that for you before you have an accident”… a third time? I’d probably yank it out of his hands and tell him that if he sweeps me again, I’m going to sweep his leg - cobra-kai style.
It appears the negative flak prompted the guy to lock that entry on his blog. Did anyone catch a name or business outside of “Bob”? Living in PA it might be useful to know whose out there, good and bad.
I’d do exactly the same, well put.