I’m wondering if this is a case problem, a bullet problem or a seating die problem…
I’m loading on a Dillon Super 1050 and using a Dillon Seating die. Bullets are Black Bullet International 125 grain cones.
Apparently, the bullet seated off center in the case causing a bulged case that catastrophically would not chamber and locked up the gun (G17).
Experience or thoughts? Would a Redding competition seating die fix it?
Thanks in advance!
Is this a one round fluke or a repeating problem?
I’ve had several. I’d say 3-4/350 rounds loaded.
Make sure you’re using the right seating stem.
http://m.dillonprecision.com/mcontent/p/9/pid/24469/catid/4/Dillon_Seating_Dies
Duh. I’ve been loading for 30 years…that’s not the problem.
I looked at your bullet on Black Bullet’s web site and then consulted Dillon’s web site and saw that they offer two seating stems–one for round nose and one for semi-wadcutter bullets. It may be that neither stem is a good fit. Ideally, the seating stem would precisely fit the bullet nose. In your case, if it does not, then the stem could be the problem.
Since your bullet is swaged lead with a .356 diameter, your expander is not ideal if it was designed for .355 jacketed bullets–which it likely was. If so, the problem is that during seating, lead is being scraped off the bullet’s side and accumulating between the bullet and seating stem body.
The fix is using fmj bullets or having a custom powder through expander made for the .356 swaged bullets. Part of the fix is having a seating stem made that fits precisely your bullet’s nose. My guess is that the guys selling this bullet have heard this problem before. A custom powder through expander funnel would have Lyman M die dimensions.
It’s not shaving lead. The bullet is not being seated crooked but more like its occasionally being allowed to not concentric and the case bulges on one side. The finished round does not look any different from every other round; the only way to determine the problem would be a chamber test. The seating stem shape is not a problem. The powder funnel/expander is not a problem as the case is expanded concentrically and the case just barely slides into the seating die.
You seem to have eliminated the possible machine/die problem areas. My vote is on the funky looking bullets.
I have been having the same issues with some 147g lead conical flat point bullets I recently bought and am still working on a solution. The area on the brass where you see the bulge you mentioned is .002" larger in diameter than on rounds that will feed reliably. In the past I remedied the problem with other lead bullets by changing cartridge C.O.L.
Let us know what you have to do to correct the issue.
It looks like you ruled out it being a “seating problem” instead it seems that you have a chambering issue.
Next guess is C.O.A.L is T2C suggest.
After reflecting on this riddle, I say with confidence that using a Lyman M die would eliminate the problem, which relates to seating a .356 bullet in a case expanded by a “regular” expander.
Reloading and shooting swaged or cast bullets for some guys is more trouble than it’s worth. The vast majority of my handgun shooting for the last 45 years has been done with bullets that I cast, sized, lubed, and then loaded. Many variables are at play.
I wondered that but had zero trouble with conical bullets in .40 and .45. They seat vertical and straight but the problem children bulge the case to one side while the other side is straight. The OAL is a little short so they don’t stick in the lands but they feed fine except in these instances.
I had a guy tell me that a competition seating due would solve it. Any experience with those?
I’m definitely not casting my own. Lol. I’m not familiar with the M Die though I must admit, I’m not a fan of Lyman.
I’ve yet to try the M die myself… but ran into a similar problem when Pappabear bought some .45 hollow point bullets. One of his over-bred 1911s wouldn’t feed some of the rounds with non-concentric bulges. I quit loading them until we could solve the problem.
I’m not sure if hand aligning the bullets as straight as possible before running the press would help.
Yeah. I gand align all of them since these aren’t bevel base bullets. I’m going to cal BBI and ask them a few questions too. I don’t see how a comp seater would help because the Dillon die is so tight that very little bell on the mouth will drag the sides. Can’t get much tighter than that and not shave lead.
I only have 3 months experience, but had the same problem,iam only trying to help.
After noticing FC had one side alot higher on the mouth of the case,.751 on one side .746 or so on the other.
I trimmed the cases to .746 and opened the bell up more. After trimming i beveled the inside and out like a rifle cartridge to remove rough edges. Then took a little more time making sure the bullet was straight bofer seating.
My bulge went away after doing that, but i dont know which step fixed it. I think it was opening the bell up more than i had it set. Seems to me with the tight bell and uneven case mouth its was guiding the bullets in crooked bulging one side of the case.
Before the insults start flying, this is only how i fixed it on mine. But i dont have my 9mm bulging on one side anymore. Iam only useing lee dies no compitition or special dies. I didnt have any feeding problems on my glock but thought it would be bad having it like that accuracy wise. I posted the same question a while back and got laughed at and told by some i also didnt have the dies adjusted right. Havent change the adjustment of my dies but the bulge went away. Hope this helps…
PS. I had the same problem with a coal at 1.135,1.146 and 1.150, coal didnt help in my case . I run at 1.146 to 1.150 useing 124gr bullet. I had the problem not only with FC brass but mixed range p/u brass ,alsowith different bullets . I think belling more fixed it,or maybe i just started guiding the bullets straighter when seating, try belling more first,thats the problem with doing 3 things at once,not sure what fixed it.
I get the same thing with plated round nose bullets, but the hollow points were really bad. I just don’t have the patience to resolve this issue for pistol ammo.
I appreciate that. One thing is for damn sure…I’m not trimming straight wall pistol brass; this can be fixed without resorting to that hellish endeavor.
That said, I wouldn’t want to put it on soft or inconsistent brass because it’s irregular.
If I put any more bell on the case mouth it will stop dead going into the seating die. I too prefer as much bell as I can get for that same reason; it eliminates shaving and seating problems. I’ll report back when I have something.
Keep the ideas coming. I guarantee this won’t be a straight forward solution.
I stopped picking up tula brass brass becouse it did it so bad it didnt even wana fit in a lee FCD without it trying to resize it,the bulge was so bad on one side. That brass seemed alot stiffer than FC or other range p/u brass. I havent tryed tula brass brass since to see if it still did it.
I know you guys dont trim pistol brass,i trimmed it trying to figure out this problem. It does take a lot of time…lol
Tex, you analyzed the issue and solved the problem. Good work.
About the o.p’s 9mm issues, variation in case thickness from brand to brand and even within the same brand may be the culprit. Obviously, thicker brass has a smaller internal capacity and will bulge before thinner brass will. Military cases are the thickest.
Another factor is that 9mm cases are tapered in such a way that the case diameter is smaller at the mouth, and the taper increases from the mouth on down. When using a carbide sizing die, we are running the case through a carbide ring. This ring produces the same case diameter from top to bottom. We no longer have a tapered case. We now have a straight walled case. During seating, we are forcing a bullet down a straight brass tube that used to be tapered. So, the bullet base may bulge the case and create a coke bottle shape. If it chambers and shoots, we are happy. Swaged and cast bullets become a big pain at this point because the have a larger diameter.
Now for the rest of the story, read about the Lyman M die–which is really an expander die with a two diameter shank.
Where is Eurodriver? He knows all this stuff.