"Unique Gen 4 Glock in .45 GAP for Florida Highway Patrol"

General Firearms Handguns - Semi Auto
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From http://www.bluesheepdog.com/2010/01/25/unique-gen-4-glock-in-45-gap-for-florida-highway-patrol/#more-549

Unique Gen 4 Glock in .45 GAP for Florida Highway Patrol
By Richard
The Florida Highway Patrol is purchasing unique Glock pistols that are unavailable, for now, to anyone else, according to Randy Pitts, a Glock sales representative at the 2010 SHOT Show. These new pistols will replace the aging Beretta 96 handguns currently carried by FHP.

Recently the Florida Highway Patrol conducted testing for a new duty pistol in Tallahassee, Fla. One of the pistols they tested was the Gen 4 Glock. The problem is Glock is only offering the Gen 4 in 9mm and .40 S&W, and FHP wanted a .45. To secure the contract of “about 3000 pistols,” Glock agreed to manufacture a special run of Gen 4 pistols chambered in .45 GAP.

According to Pitts, “We don’t even have a model number for these guns.” Pitts stated Glock has secured ATF approval for the new pistols, and FHP should take delivery of the new guns in “two to three months.”

It is unknown if Glock will turn these custom pistols into a regular production item. The .45 GAP has gained some popularity with law enforcement, but has not captured the shooting public’s attention. Though the GAP reproduces the ballistics of a .45 ACP in a smaller package allowing for “high capacity” .45 pistols, the relative high cost of ammunition has kept many buyers away.

Other agencies carrying the .45 GAP pistols include the Georgia State Patrol, New York State Police, Pennsylvania State Police, and South Carolina Highway Patrol. FHP is currently the only department that will have a Gen 4 .45 pistol.

Hmmm…

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Ring, ring…

“Hey Randy, this is the Chief. Yeah, she’s fine, thanks. Say, I was trying to have some bad ideas today and all I came up with was drinking and driving and dating a prostitute. What? A new Gen 4 in 45 GAP? Why, yes, that will do nicely. Thanks!”

M_P

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Other than the select few large agencies that issue (force) thier troops the .45 GAP, does any one else use this round?

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No thanks. I’ll stick with 45 ACP.

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I wonder what the motivation was behind a special run of Gen4 45GAP pistols as opposed to, say, a special run of Gen4 45 Auto pistols. The G21 has higher capacity, less recoil, and less expensive ammunition as well as a much wider variety of holsters available.

Someone at the SHOT Show did opine that Glock will drag its feet on the G21 Gen4 specifically because it could put the final nail in Gaston’s pet cartridge…

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What an odd choice. I wonder who’s palm is getting greased.

I’m also unclear on what they find unsatisfactory about the 96 in their current use. I remember when they ditched the 92 for the 96, mostly because they wanted to keep up with the Joneses.

FHP is a really interesting agency. They are not exactly “state police” like other states have, they really are for the most part highway cops, pulling over speeders and stopping truckers. But there have also been more than a few killed in the line of duty because pulling over speeders at o-dark-thirty in a state with a large population of turd-worlders is not exactly a safe activity.

At one time IIRC they required a college degree for new hires, which was kind of rare for LE agencies on the local/county level at the time I was researching things.

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Todd, my guess would be grip size for female Patrol…men (can you call them "female patrolmen? if not, what the hell are they?). I have noticed a disparate number of females in FHP as compared to other LE agencies, based largely on my propensity for making contact with various LE agencies making traffic stops. :eek: :wink:

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:smiley:

40SW is hard on the 96. Armorers in agencies that made the switch from the 92 to the 96 have identified increased wear and downtime and shorter lifespan of the 96. A couple of agencies that aren’t in Berettas commented that if they were much happier with the 92 overall, and might even still be a Beretta customer had they not made the switch.

(Most folks didn’t give the 9mm to 40SW transition true thought, and simply followed the trend.)

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Quality:D

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Is USBP still using the 96? IIRC FHP made the switch around the same time as the Border Patrol.

I would be pretty shocked if FHP had encountered stress issues with the 96. Every time I get pulled over I try to convince them to come out and shoot with us and they’re never interested. :smiley:

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That made my day!

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Exactly why is this such a bad idea?

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As a Florida taxpayer, I can tell you I’m none too happy about paying the premium for GAP ammo.

If they genuinely believe that the 4th Gen Glock in .45 GAP is the best solution and can show empirical data to support their position then I absolutely want out Troopers to have the best tools for their jobs when it comes to defending their lives or the lives of the citizenry.

But the more I read that article the more it sounds like one bad idea stacked on another. The FHP wanted Glocks, and they wanted .45ACP. Glock came out with the 4th Gen and the brass got distracted with demanding the bright-shiny-object, to which Glock responded “ok, but you have to take our stupid proprietary cartridge that costs more to shoot and that we can’t seem to sell anyone on”.

FHP should have just stuck with the Glock 21, or IMHO I’d like to see them with the 20 as I think the 10mm performs about as well as can be expected of a pistol round, and better than the other standard pistol rounds, against automobiles. Which would seem to me to make sense for an agency dealing with, you know, people driving cars.

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Classic! :smiley:

My guess is that they were talked into the 45 GAP. I am betting that Glock is trying everything they can to get the cartridge off the ground and they needed a major player to help make it happen.

“No, no, no…you don’t want that 40 caliber cartridge with S&W’s name on it, the 45 GAP is sooo much better.” :rolleyes:

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You listened to this dialog between FHP & Glock? The FHP can handle a 10mm better than the FBI did? You know the deal the FHP got on the Glocks? Doesn’t the grip on the GAP fit most peoples hand better than the standard Glock .45acp.? Is not the performance of the .45 GAP the same as the .45 acp non +P? Please enlighten us.

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Clearly an unbiased observer here, huh? :rolleyes:

You know the answers to all of your questions, yet you ramble on because…

You think this is a good solution for FHP? The custom Gen 4 .45 GAP? Why?

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the 45 GAP round is one i thought was doomed from the start. while the supply for LE isnt an issue, i RARELY see a box of it at any of the big name sporting goods stores. that alone is reason for me to steer clear of it in favor of the ACP

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Clearly, based on your response, you’re being a smart ass. If you don’t like being questioned, don’t post. And yes, I am an unbiased observer. I don’t know if this is a good solution for FHP and I don’t know that it’s a bad solution either, and neither do you it seems.

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On the Beretta 96 front; those guns are some of the hardest recoiling .40 pistols I’ve ever fired.

On the moderator front; let’s stay away from personal attacks please

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Troopers, by God! Though next time a female pulls you over, try calling her a Troopette and report back to us how that goes.

Negative. BP (which is now CBP) issues HK P2000s. That change happened beginning in 2004.

INS (which at the time encompassed BP, this was all pre-DHS) adopted the 96D Brigadier in '94 if I recall correctly.

FHP adopted the 96G (I think it was a ‘G’) in 2001 or 2002. I was working at Beretta at the time and shared many sad lamentations with the department’s head firearms guy about the dumb decision to go .40 … even Beretta didn’t actively push the 96 because of the reliability and (even moreso) durability problems.

I would be pretty shocked if FHP had encountered stress issues with the 96.

It doesn’t take much. Even the most “shooting” agencies rarely wear out guns among the field workers. Instructors, SWAT, and training guns get beat up fast, though, and it’s based upon that information that many make their decisions.

I know this was directed at Rob and as a rule I’m all for picking on Rob, but…

No, I didn’t. But I did experience first hand the 9mm->.40 S&W transition, as explained above. It’s very easy for me to believe the decision to go .45 GAP was based on something other than performance.

You know the deal the FHP got on the Glocks?

No, but I know the deal that the other state adopters like NYSP got (free guns; free holsters; free transition, training, & duty ammo for multiple years). I know from first hand experience how much of the farm Glock is willing to give away to get more GAP guns on the market.

Doesn’t the grip on the GAP fit most peoples hand better than the standard Glock .45acp.?

Apples and oranges. A Gen4 GAP is going to fit more people than a Gen3 G21, no question. No one knows how a Gen4 G21 will fit, though, and both S&W (M&P45) and HK (HK45) have proven that it’s pretty easy to make a high-cap .45 Auto that is ergonomic for the majority of shooters.

Is not the performance of the .45 GAP the same as the .45 acp non +P?

Terminal performance? Yes, assuming we’re comparing the same bullet weights between the two. Perhaps Doctor Roberts will step in and further elucidate the point.

Shooting performance? No. The .45 GAP has the recoil of a .45 Auto, the flip of a 357 SIG, and the torque of the .40 S&W all rolled into one. In my experience, the same small-handed females that struggle to hold a big gun also struggle to control hard-kicking guns. The smart solution is to give them 9mms, not increasingly stouter ammo.