Thoughts / Specs on Nylon Gun Belts & Leather - UPDATED.

Tactical Gear Tactical Gear
1

I get asked this every week or two - so I thought I’d post it here where others can add their experiences. I can also point people to this thread to join the discussion. I’m doing this from my phone, so excuse any typos. PLEASE SEE POST 4 BELOW! (Mods - any chance of combining the two posts?)

Question was (paraphrasing): I’m thinking about switching my Leather Gun Belt to a Nylong Gun Belt. What are your thoughts on this?

Leather belts aren’t as standardized as nylon belts are. I’ve seen some really good ones and really bad ones. The biggest pro with leather is it conforms a bit better to the body. The cons are it wears out much quicker, allows less adjustments to fine tune, can be harder to cinch down, can be harder to do weapon manipulations off of, and it SQUEAKS.

However leather can - when made correctly - have just as much ability to bear a load and looks more casual. There are also some beautiful and incredibly durable leather belts out there that will probably outlive their owners.

Nylon belts come in 4 flavors in my view. You have the shitty issued belt the military gets. Then you have the Wilderness / Galco Instructor belts made with a more proprietary blend of nylon. Next is the same D- Ring instructor belt made with scuba webbing. Finally you have Cobra buckle belts. This can be broken into 2 sub-groups. You have the style that threads the belt directly to the Cobra buckle and the style with an accent webbing sewed to the base belt and threaded through a 1" cobra buckle.

As far as nylon instructor belts go - the Wilderness is a nice belt but avoid the Galco. The stitching is awful. Same with the Uncle Mikes. Waste of money. The versions of these belts with the polymer insert add strength if you run a lot of stuff off your belt. Personally, I find the Instructor style belts made from scuba webbing with D rings to be the best. But you need to go to a custom shop for these.

The other group is the Cobra buckles. I think the 1.75" Cobra Riggers belt is the strongest and most durable gun belt available. You may want to opt for a 1.5" for compatibility with certain pant loops though. It’s simple to run almost anything off these belts. They are load rated in the tens of thousands of pounds. You could tow a car in a pinch with one.

The new “cool guy” belt is the 1.5" with 1" accent webbing attached to a 1" cobra buckle. The Ares Ranger started this style. The nice part is you have a smaller buckle - since the Cobra buckles are kind of bulky. Because of the style though, you “tuck” both ends of the base webbing behind the buckle - usually held in place by Velcro or a spandex band Depending on Manufacturer. It can be bulky to some. That makes 4 layers of scuba webbing behind the belt buckle. Also some don’t like having to fiddle with that much material and it can sometimes “break loose” or you forget to secure the ends - and you’ll have a length of webbing running down your zipper line on your pants. The accent webbing either hangs loose or is secured - depending on maker. This also needs tucked or it hangs down the front of your pants. Some like the Velcro to secure it to the base belt and some don’t. I personally prefer just tucking it between the pants and the belt.

Other things to keep in mind. Cobra belts click like a seatbelt so you don’t need to adjust them constantly. There also isn’t Velcro on them to wear out (there is velcro - you just don’t expose it often like an instructor belt).

You must remove the buckle to thread gear on - which may be bothersome. The D Ring instructor style Velcros into place on the strong side - so it may interfere with your holster. Can be bothersome if you wear forward of 3 o’clock.

Instructor belts are easier to cinch down. Black webbing is always stiffer then Coyote or other color webbing. This only applies to the base webbing in the case of the Ranger style belts. Cobra belts are expensive and you have to wait for a custom shop to make them.

So what to buy if you go with Nylon? If for EDC I’d go with a 1.5" Cobra, a 1.5" with 1" Cobra buckle, or a D Ring instructor belt. For an instructor - get a nice custom one or a Wilderness if there is an immediate need. A nice custom belt will last forever. My personal preference based on being in a dirty shop and having a very hairy Golden Retriever is to avoid Velcro on belts, so I grab a Cobra Riggers belt more often then not. The Velcro stays captured when adjusted into place. Or in the case of the Ares Ranger - has no Velcro (hook and loop for all you cool guys).

Whatever you choose - leather or nylon - a nice stiff gun belt is a MUST for concealed carry. In my opinion it’s just as important as a good gun or good holster. In fact, our Holsters will really shine with a good belt - as they depend on a solid platform for a good draw.

PLEASE SEE POST 4 BELOW FOR CONTINUATION!

I’m going to focus on Nylon belts. Leather belts are great - but there is just too much variety. Nylon belts are more standardized and can be objectively measured in quality by workmanship and specifications of parts. I am a fan of leather - but I do find I prefer nylon belts for serious and hard use belts.

In my opinion, the modern generation of gunfighters and concealed carry citizens will be best served by a plastic gun, plastic holster, and plastic belt. Everyone has their opinions though - and these are just mine.

Instructor Belts

The instructor belt is a timeless design for nylon belts. As stated above, there are two different takes on it. One is the traditional “Instructor Belt” (I.E. Wilderness 3 and 5 Stitch) and the other is what the custom shops are putting out using their own scuba webbing. An Instructor Belt is better defined as a “V-Ring Belt” - though there are different buckles and takes on this design.

First off is the Wilderness and its clones. The best part about the Wilderness belts are they can be found for immediate purchase and are plenty stiff for concealed carry. The nylon - as best as I can describe it - is similar to a seatbelt. They make a 3 stitch, 5 stitch, and reinforced model. My personal favorite is the 5 stitch. The reinforced model adds a strip of polymer in the center and it is a good choice if the user is planning on running AR mags from the belt - though not completely necessary. There are also different buckles - such as a plastic version that “will not set off metal detectors”. My personal opinion is these double delrin buckles are inferior to the V-Ring - and getting through metal detectors is a solution looking for a problem.

The Wilderness Instructor Belt
Cost - Under $50 at most retailers
Pros - More cost effective, stocked at many different retailers, great for CCW.
Cons - Not as stiff as some of the custom shop belts. Velcro can wear out or get dirty over time. Velcro portion may interfere with holster.

You can see below how well a Wilderness instructor belt can hold up a fullsize high capacity pistol (10mm) even with a high riding holster. Also note its “casual” look.

Custom Shop V-Ring Belts

These are identical to form and function as the above instructor belts - only they use a thicker webbing.

Ares Backpacker’s Belt (closest to a V-Ring) - $50
Jones Tactical - Riggers Belt Standard - $32
Endeavor Stitchworks V Ring - $30

Pros - Simple, classic design. Cost effective. Easy to cinch down.
Cons - Velcro can wear out / get dirty. Lead Times. Velcro portion may interfere with holster.

Instructor Belts

Full Belt

Instructor D Ring Buckle

Instructor Velcro Attachment

Cobra Riggers Belts - 1.5" - 2"

The Cobra belts are as strong a belt as you can find. The load ratings are etched into their Cobra buckles. All Cobra buckles come from the same place. All webbing is the same strength (within their Commercial and MilSpec catagories). The differences from company to company is the quality of the stitching. Keep in mind that colored webbing is softer then Black.

You adjust these belts via Velcro and then they are “set” in place. From there, you simply click the belt on. Think of buckling a seatbelt. This makes them very convenient for taking on and off. It also keeps the velcro on the belts contained - so they don’t wear out fast. The buckle will be the size of the webbing. Therefore a 1.75" belt will have a 1.75" buckle. Keep this in mind when ordering a size. You will also need to remove the Male portion of the buckle anytime you thread on a holster with fixed belt loops (IWB soft loops or clip on designs need not apply). It’s just too thick to fit through the loops.

For reference, I’ve linked the 1.75" variety below.

Ares Cobra Rigger Belt 1.75"- $75
Jones Tactical Cobra Shooters Belt 1.75" - $65
Endeavor Stitchworks Cobra Gun Belt 1.75" - $50

Pros - Extremely solid mounting platform. Makes a great inner belt for war belts. Cobra buckle is very convenient. Extreme tensile strength. Velcro doesn’t need constantly adjusted after using the bathroom.
Cons - Threading gear can be difficult due to thickness and the need to remove the male portion of the belt. Costs more then other belts. Lead Times. Cobra buckle may be considered bulky by some.

Cobra Rigger Gun Belts - 1.75"

Cobra Adjustment

1.5" with 1" accent webbing / buckle - A.K.A. 1.5"/1" (as I call them)

This is the most modern take on the gun belt and is gaining a lot popularity. Much of it has to do with a recent handgun video. It takes a 1.5" length of double scuba webbing and stitches a 1" length of accent webbing on top. The accent webbing is then used to attach to the Cobra buckle - which is also 1". This allows a smaller buckle - but the tradeoff is the webbing doubles over itself behind the buckle. This means you have a whole lot of webbing right behind the buckle. Different companies use different means to secure the doubled over webbing. Some will find it simply too much material.

Ares Ranger - $79
Jones Tactical EveryDay Belt - $60

Pros - Lower profile buckle. “Cool Accent Webbing” for contrasting colors. Same stiffness as 1.5" Cobra belts. Many color combination options. Has NO velcro (some models).
Cons - Bulky around the buckle from material. Significantly less tensile strength from thinner accent webbing attached to a smaller buckle. Lead Times. Cost. Difficult to thread gear. Male portion of buckle must be removed to thread gear. All in all - a complex design to produce the same results as a 1.5" Cobra belt.

1.5" belt with 1" Cobra Buckle / 1" accent webbing.

1.75" vs 1.5"/1" Buckles

Different Cobra Buckles - 1.75" in middle

Different 1.5"/1" attachment / webbing tuck methods

2 vs 3 stitches to attach accent webbing

Cuts / melting to finish threading point

My CURRENT everyday carry Belt.

Tips, tricks, and things to keep in mind

  1. Belts run smaller then your pant size. Measure your actual waist size WITH holster (if carrying IWB) before making an order.
  2. If the stiffest belt possible is desired - get Black webbing.
  3. Avoid the Galco (NYLON - their Leather is quite good) and Uncle Mike’s Instructor Belts.
  4. If running a 2" Cobra belt in a duty / war belt fashion - spend the extra money to add the inner velcro belt. It helps keep gear in place.
  5. If you’re having trouble threading with a tight riding holster (such as ours) - go through one loop, pull a good 6" of belt through, then bend it and go through the second loop.
  6. If you’re having trouble unthreading with a tight riding holster (such as ours) - remove the buckle (if a Cobra belt). Then hold the holster in your left hand to keep it in place while grabbing the webbing behind the holster with your right hand. Pull hard to unthread while still on the body.
  7. Don’t rappel with these belts. Or you will have a mean wedgie.
  8. I consider ALL of the above companies good to go. Pick the one you find has the best price, customer service, product closest to your needs, and supports innovation in the tactical gear industry. Worrying about who made what first and who uses what will NOT necessarily equal a better product. These are things to keep in mind - but they shouldn’t restrict one to a single company. Consumers shouldn’t worry about those things. Leave it to those with a vested monetary interest.
  9. If you want something that conforms to the body - it’s best to stick with leather. These have been described like “wearing a cast around the waist”.
  10. KEEP YOUR VELCRO CLEAN SO IT CAN DO ITS JOB!!

**Pricing based on advertised price - not including shipping or options. Some photos are property of their respective company - while other photos are my own. If there is a problem with a photo being used - please contact Steve at personalsecuritysystems@gmail.com . I have NO affiliation with ANY of these companies - aside from being a consumer of their products. I have also NOT received ANY monetary or product compensation for my thoughts listed above. Thanks for reading.

2

I’d previously thought that simply a quality “regular” belt was sufficient for concealed carry, but after coming into an Ares Gear belt, I’m singing a different tune.

I’ll try to get pics, but I’m absolutely amazed at the difference it makes with an IWB holster and at 1.5" width, it works fine with my existing wardrobe. The stitching is beyond robust and the ease of adjustment is perfect for going between the grocery store (tighter) and the office desk (looser).

3

Having tried, and examined, a whole bunch of the new breed of nylon belts, I find myself gravitating back to the leather belt I have from Andrews and Beltman, and the nylon belts from The Wilderness.

I would like it if The Wilderness would offer their belt with a Cobra buckle, both because I like the aesthetic of it with every day clothes but also because it makes taking a dump with CCW gear on my belt much easier/faster. :eek:

One of the new-breed nylon makers told me that The Wilderness uses a proprietary nylon, and now I think I believe him. Most of the new-breed seem to need to use at least 30% more material to get the same functional stiffness as The Wilderness and that results in a less comfortable and harder to thread belt IME. Even harder than leather.

4

Steve and Rob, thanks for the info.
I currently have a gun belt from K&D Holsters. It has served me well over the last few years, but the nylon belts keep calling to me.
I purchased an Ares backpacker belt to “try out” a nylon belt. It held stuff securely, but I found the buckly slipped a little simply due to the design (not a Cobra buckle). I ended up selling it after 6 months.
The thing I like most about the nylon belt is it will also work with my hiking trips since nylon wont be effected by moisture like leather. My concern is that it will be too stiff…I imagine that the leather belt stretches and bends just a little bit to make it more comfortable.

5

The extremely stiff ARES Ranger belt that I’ve got is almost more comfortable, due to the stiffness. It takes a second longer to put on, but the stiffness is absolutely an asset when it comes to comfort.

6

Good info, and thanks for starting this thread Steve. When I started carrying concealed on a regular basis I thought a good ‘regular’ belt was all that would be necessary. However, after a few months, this regular belt is starting to show its limitations. My guess is that it’s wearing faster, most likely due to the added weight. So now I’m finally starting to look for other options. The information you posted above is right on time for me. Much appreciated.

7

I don’t have a lot of experience with a number of belts, when I first got my concealed carry permit in NY back in '05 I did some research and decided on a Rafter S cowhide belt, http://www.raftersgunleather.com/Belts.htm I haven’t worn it that often since moving to CA, waiting for the SAF and CGF to lay the smack down on Sheriff Baca so I can get my permit here. However when I was living in NY I carried on a daily basis and the belt worked great, with the only downside was the screw in the front left side came loose after a couple years of wear, easy fix to snug it back up.

8

is this an Ares belt?

9

It is not. This is something I had done custom based on what I did and didn’t like based on the Ares Ranger and Jones EDB.

The maker wishes to remain anonymous and has no plans on making a 1.5" / 1" style belt. I also don’t think the execution worked any better then the Ares or Jones offerings - in retrospect.

10

Ok thanks.

11

I have had two OSOE Cobra Riggers Belts for around three years. One thing I hate about them is how long the “tail” is after the belt is tightened into place. The excess material really interfered with my gear configuration. I have been using my trusty Galco belts (I deploy with 2) for years.
Here is a picture of the current version I’m using.

One note, it doesn’t take 4 layers of SCUBA webbing to hold you pants and gear up.

Like Steve S. said, leather doesn’t last as long as nylon. It also tends to stretch out however, the best part about leather is that it conforms to your body.
One thing I’ve noticed about Cobra buckles, they stick out like a white woman with a black eye. If you are carrying a gun on your belt, why draw more attention to that part of your body?

12

I have always preferred leather belts for their comfort and snug hold of gear and have wondered if a good shark skin or elephant hide would be worth the cost and approach the durability, abrasion resistance and some of the other qualities of a nylon belt.

13

Steve,

I like the article and argee on most everything in it. I got my first CCW license almost 20 years ago. Since then, I have tried a fair amount of belts. Up until last year, I was a diehard fan of leather belts while carrying. I seem to always have 2 carry belts, a brown one and a black one. Over the years I have replaced both, but recently had trouble finding a quality brown one. It has been my experience that companies that once made great leather products, now have gone the way of the cheap ones. However, there are some companies still making good stuff, it just takes a little longer to find them. My current 2 leather carry belts:

The brown one is by Crossbreed holsters, the black one is a Galco. As you can see, leather will conform to the shape of the owner over time. I have more years on the Galco, but both are reliable platforms. However, I have been wearing something different lately…

I read about the nylon belts, and wanted to try one out. As much as it pains me to give up the leaher, IMHO, the nylon does an overall better job, especially in less-than ideal conditions. My current carry belt is from Endeavor Stichworks, whom I think make some of the best belts out there. Here is one with a holster and magazine carrier from PSS:

The upper belt is my Balckhawk belt, the lower is the Endeavor Cobra belt. As with the leather, the nylon is starting to take shape as well:

I wear the Cobra belt, holster and mag carrier concealed, usually with a shirt, sometimes with a SMF vest. I have found that this combination is the most comfortable i have found yet, and does not bind or kick up hot spots, even with a long day’s wearing. This is what I will wear until it is time to put on the Blackhawk belt, but even then, the Cobra belt is still working.

I have added a strip of loop velcro on my Cobra belt, which works in conjunction with strips of hook on the inside of the Blackhawk belt. It is early on in the trials, but it does seem to be working well in reducing the movement of the overbelt while drawing magazines from the pouches…It is, of course, a work in progress…

I guess we all have to find out what works for each of us, but for me, I am staying with the nylon for now… but still keeping an eye out for the next best mousetrap.

Take Care,
gb

14

I really like the tactical nylon belts I currently have in use that include an OSOE riggers belt, a TT riggers belt and a Jones Tactial EDC belt. The Jones Tactical is one of my favorites to wear.

BUT, what I don’t like about the nylon tactical belts of today, is the excessive tails on riggers belts and with the cobra style belts, having to pull the buckles off to thread items on the belt, put the buckle back on and then try and velcro the tail down under a holster or other gear. It drives me nuts! Working plain clothes, I carry the pistol, double mag pouch, cuffs, OC spray, cell phone, belt badge and flashlight. It really gets annoying to try to get all this stuff threaded on, then put the cobra buckle on, and try and get the tail under the gear! Equally annoying is the tail on riggers belts, trying to get it between the belt and items on the belt.

Maybe I am doing it wrong, I don’t know! LOL!:no:

If I recall correctly, when I remembered seeing riggers belts start to become common use, dudes were using them with a drop leg holster rig and not much else on the belt. With that in mind, both styles of belts work well.

I see rigger or cobra belts as excellent inner belts for the molle battle belts, OR again used with minimal equipment mounted on them.

I will continue to use my tactical nylon gun belts…but I am searching for a new leather gun belt that is easy on, easy off. I DO like the look of some of the Wilderness belts, but see the tails on them still being a pain. If someone has any alternatives they can suggest, fire away.

15

Thanks to Steve S. I now have a belt on order with Endeavor Stitch Works. Then I can see for myself how the nylon and double leather compare.

16

I’ve gone through a bunch of belts myself, and IMO, belts are too often overlooked as the critical element that they are in a comfortable EDC setup. The best magazine pouches and holster in the world will still be uncomfortable when put on the wrong belt for you.

My Wilderness nylon has replaced multiple nylon 5.11 belts, and Specter belts.

My Desantis leather belt is worn out and way too flexible, and I’m strongly considering ordering a Beltman.

In my experience, a belt that has zero stretch or “give” to it, can be a blessing under a really heavy load, but tends to be less comfortable under a light load. For example, when I carry a fullsize glock, a few blades, single 123a flashlight, wallet/keys/smartphone…even my worn out leather belt is more comfortable that the Wilderness nylon.

If I added a few magazines on the other side, the nylon is more comfortable to me, then.

My hope is that the more robust leather belt bridges the gap I’m currently experiencing between being stiff and being comfortable.

17

Awsome post and very educational! I was not aware of the newer breed of nylon belts (Cobra, etc.).

I had a Wilderness instructor’s belt for several years. It was my go-to range/training belt for a while. At some point, I gave it to a person in need of a decent belt and have not thought to replace it, although this thread has me thinking I should.

For everyday concealed carry, I have been using the same Milt Sparks 1.5" leather belt with brass buckle for the past 15 years. It is still holding up great along with the matching Summer Special holster I bought at the same time. I re-dye the leather every few years when it starts to look worn. When wearing a suit or sportcoat, I use a leather 1.25" belt with brass buckle made by a local holster-maker. I have nothing against nylon and think that in many ways it is probably superior to leather, but since I carry concealed 90% of the time I prefer to stay away from anything that looks “tactical.”

The hybrid kydex/leather belts made by Blade Tech look interesting and I may give one a try if my Sparks belt ever decides to call it quits.

-Mike

18

I currently use a Mitch Rosen leather belt for EDC and general range use, but I’ve been looking into getting a good web belt for hard use at the range. Thanks for the good info Steve, lots of information to process there.

19

I would take a look at the Ares Ranger Belt. It’s close to your Jones Tactical EDB - but has no velcro whatsoever. It will allow you to run gear right up to the buckles on both ends, you just need to tuck the “Tail” behind the buckle once tightened.

Let me know if you need some pictures to better illustrate what I mean. Sorry for the slow response.

20

Anyone ever trim and re-burn their nylon on a cobra buckled belt once you figure out your sizing to get rid of all the extra webbing? I had to do this with my Wilderness after I started wearing my (PSS) holster OWB and forward of 3 o’clock and it worked well - however the webbing looks way thicker on the cobra buckled belts.