Are you kidding me…
“…we discussed the fact that Ho Chi Minh was actually inspired by the U.S. Declaration of Independence and Constitution, and the words of Thomas Jefferson.”
Someone seriously needs to take the microphone away from him. What’s next? Stalin read up on George Washington before murdering 3+ million of his own people?
The message here was that if only we might have bridged our differences then – if only Ho and Truman could have done what Obama and Sang did this week, so much unpleasantness might have been avoided.
…and his diplomatic meeting with Sang just saved America from another Vietnam war! :blink:
Ho Chi Minh was actually inspired by our Declaration of Independence.
He even went to Wilson for help after WWI, but obviously “national self-determination” only applies to non-Germanic whites.
Actually Vladimir Lenin cited Jefferson, Locke, and other liberal authors as inspiration for the Bolsheviks. Obviously different interpretations of what “all men being created equal” really means…
Ho Chi Minh was actually much more of a nationalist/anti-colonialist rather than a communist. He along with the Viet-Mien largely became communist in order to get support from USSR and communist China.
It is really a tragedy that the U.S. didn’t seek a more productive solution in Southeast Asia post 1945. Instead of supporting the French and in turn South Vietnamese which dragged us into Vietnam it would have been interesting to see if the Vietnamese would have rejected communism in the late 1940s and taken a more pro-west outlook if the U.S. would not have supported French re-colonialization efforts in Vietnam post-WWII.
Actually that was Truman after WWII. They didn’t wish to resume being a French colony. Unfortunately for them, Truman was bound to France by NATO alliance. Having been turned down by the west, they sought help elsewhere.
Now I don’t want to paint Mihn as some kind of Jefferson equivalent. He was in charge when American POWs were treated the way they were. He oversaw a brutal communist government. But it is true he first turned to the west for assistance.
A lot of countries turned to America for help to abolish the colonial rule and rulers. Syria was very Pro-American.
Ho Chi Mihn was educated in France in France’s way of “social engineering,” yet they let the people hold on to their culture. Mihn took what he learned from the French and saw the hypocrisy of what they stood for, and what they were doing. Mihn not only looked at the Declaration of Independence, but more notably, and what Obama missed, was The Rights of Man that came from the French Revolution, also authored by Thomas Jefferson.
Vietnam under Ho Chi Mihn went from an American Revolution type conflict with the French, to a French Revolution, then to an insurgency and a typical war in some sense, and back to French Revolution when America pulled out.
Jefferson was appalled at what the French had done during their Revolution.
I agree with this completely. With the Bolshevik’s claiming an end to imperialism, it was easy to see why he turned to the communists.
It occurred twice, once with Wilson after the First World War, and again with Truman after the Second. He joined the Socialist Party of France shortly after the First World War and worked with the Comintern.
IIRC, Ho Chi Minh even was willing to negotiate a settlement with the French in 1948/49 which was already a few years into the war. The French took this as a sign of weakness and with increasing amounts of American supplied weapons become available felt that they could win the war.
I think the summary of American involvement in Vietnam from the late 1940s to 1975 is that we were involved enough in the between the French, South Vietnamese, and later our own involvement to preclude a negotiated settlement but were not involved enough to decisively win the conflict.
With the French we provided them with just enough cast off WWII equipment to make them feel confident that they could regain control of Vietnam but not enough to decisively win the important battles like Dien Bien Phu.
The South Vietnamese again received enough military and civilian aid to give the ruling elite a crutch to think they could defeat the Viet Cong without making much needed social reforms and reducing extensive government corruption.
When the U.S. became involved, we sent enough troops to kill a huge number of NVA and Viet Cong (1 million plus) while losing 58,000 troops ourselves but we weren’t willing to take the fight into the North and defeat the North Vietnamese.
I don’t think Minh was in any kind of leadership position when nationalists sought assistance from Wilson after WWI. His documented arrival in France was June 1919 and he joined the group around the same time.
Am I the only one that is skipping the history lesson (which is actually informative thank you) and going straight to the WTF factor of why our POTUS is speaking to the national media of Ho Chi Minh being “inspired” by the Declaration of Independence and Founding Fathers to later turn around and torture, maim and abuse American POWs? I mean, maybe I’m just reading too far into this, but I see “hey, ol’ Thomas Jefferson and our Declaration of Independence was an inspiration to the very same communist Ho Chi Minh that abused our POWs.” If it was just political nice speak, maybe, but with the blatant socialist agenda of this sitting POTUS as well as his continued attempts at violating our Constitution to consolidate power as supreme ruler…not seeing it that way. I see it as saying the actions of a national leader that abused American servicemen was inspired by our Founding Fathers as well as the document that set us on a path to nationhood. Forgive me for reading too far into what he says, but over the past four years, we need to be reading a bit further into what he says…
I just feel that while we can forgive and forget the nations and most of the people of those nations we have warred with over the long run as we have with Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Germany, we cannot and should not forgive the leaders that set about the policies that led directly to the abuse our own countrymen. Nor should our political leaders be talking to the national media about how such leaders were “inspired” by our own Founding Fathers. Some things in history you just don’t bring up as POTUS no matter how truthful they may be.
I do think you make a very good point. There is absolutely no reason to volunteer that statement in the first place. Although you could have a historical debate about the history of Vietnam in the 20th century, there is no reason why the President needs to make those statements especially since Vietnam is still a very sensitive issue among servicemen who fought their.
Do you really think POTUS and more specifically the people who drafted and put those remarks in front of him actually looked into the issue that deeply beforehand and did their due-diligence? I’m gonna wager that no, they didn’t.
Don’t underestimate the intellect of the handlers.
They are mattoids: extremely intelligent but wicked/evil.
“One cannot awaken a man who pretends to be asleep.”
I find this administration disturbing and nothing surprises me these days. Next thing you know Hanoi Jane Fonda will be appointed Secretary of Defense.
Probably an idea worth exploring, given our relations with North Korea. I see no reason why she wouldn’t go over there at least as well as she did in North Viet Nam. She has all of the requisite experience.
And really, not to cross the lines of open criticism of senior officials, but can she really do any worse than what we have in place already, where the overwhelming focus (despite being a nation still at war) is almost entirely upon the largely-contrived issue of sexual assault, the creation of a new lady-based elite warrior class and advancement of the LGBT agenda?
AC
You forgot the planned $52B sequestration cuts next year up and over the $37B this year. And I thought the Clinton years were bad…
Obama = Jerkass.
And now the comparisons are complete.
He was a member of some sort of nationalist group at the time. Can’t remember the name of it off the top of my head.
One has to wonder sometimes. Perhaps it is the cloak of incompetency that is so deceptive at times.