Over the past year I became a covert and have really warmed up to this round. I will always keep a 5.56 in the line up but the 300 Blk is great tool that does some interesting things.
I was just going over some recent range data. 110 Barnes TTSX at 2510 FPS, 125 Grain Seirra Pro Hunters JSP at 2320 FPS, 125 Nosler BT 2340 FPS( Too hot, backed it down, but you get the idea). I think of it as my modern day equivalent to the Winchester 30/30 trapper Carbine.
Ive definitely been enjoying mine, especially since I got my suppressor. Its honestly a little louder than I thought it would be shooting subs suppressed but its still pretty badass. For my deer lease 200 is as far as I need to go so its ballistics work out great for me. As soon as my sbr stamp gets approved I’ll be moving to an 8" noveske barrel which I’ve heard is a bit more quiet than the 16" variety.
What barrel length and loads are you using to get those velocities?
It is an amazing round for sure!
Mostly agree. The muzzle velocity is rather pokey with most loads. Of course, if you chrono real .223 ammo in real 16" or shorter ARs, you’ll find it is often also pokey*. Sometimes not much faster than the faster 300BLK loads. Ammo continues to be relatively scarce, although in mid-2012 you could usually find a couple kinds at OK prices (generally UMC FMJ and one or two PNW Arms loads, sometimes Gunn also).
(* if you shoot exclusively 5.56 NATO ammo loaded to US military specs, you will probably not be seeing the velocity issues that plague most of the commercial market ammo.)
If I could get a 300BLK cartridge that did the following, I would be very happy:
-2350fps (or more) with a 125gr bullet with a decent ballistic coefficient
-within safe pressure levels (OK with 5.56 NATO pressure standard)
-feeds reliably
-affordable - no more than $1.00/round max
The initial promise was all those things, but most of what’s on the market today seems to fall just slightly short. The trajectory at 200-300 yards is a lot steeper with just a 100-200fps difference in muzzle velocity, so I personally think it matters. I don’t need long range, but I want a relatively flat shot out to 300 yards. I frequently read reloaders’ reports at 300BLK Talk and it seems that for every guy getting over >2300fps without pressure signs, there are two guys getting <2100fps before primers start to flatten or case heads start getting engraved. There are also only like two 125gr .308 bullets on the market with what I consider decent BC’s (over .32). But I do think the above combination is achievable, at least within the 5.56 NATO pressure standard, and once I see multiple reports of this happening, I’ll be a lot more enthusiastic.
I really want to get a 300 upper at some point. I haven’t shot one, but from all I have read and seen on video I have developed somewhat of a man crush for this round.
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I really like my 9.5" 300BLK AAC upper. I have one of the older variations with the KAC URX, not the newer slick sided URX. I was really curious about it since one of claims was that it would give you MP5SD sound levels but in a much harder hitting package.
I have never measured the speed or penetration of the round, but the testing data done by others seems to indicate that it does perform as advertised in comparison to the MP5SD.
I don’t have any experience with the longer range shooting for 300BLK, but recreationally shooting it inside 100 yards out of the AAC upper and KAC SBR lower combination that I use, it’s alot of fun. It’s really amazingly quiet with the AAC SDN can.
I do agree that ammo is harder to find and on the expensive side, although when I bought a couple cases of the Remington, it was under $1/round.
I guess a lot of it depends on what you expect. Almost anything designed after 1980 beats the MP5, and I would agree that a short barreled 300BLK setup with a suppressor would seem to do everything an MP5 can do and a whole lot more. For me, I was comparing it more to a 16" carbine in 5.56 NATO or 6.8 SPC, basically looking for more terminal effect than 5.56 with minimal compromises anywhere else. With the smaller case capacity it’s always going to be a bit behind 6.8 SPC, but it also has the major benefits of using standard bolts and magazines, while even today there are fairly limited options for 6.8 SPC magazines.
In case anyone is wondering, I own an upper in 300BLK and none in any of the other non-5.56 calibers. I bought into 300BLK after considering it for a year (the year in which it was 80% vaporware) and deciding that the practical benefits outweighed the minor performance disparity vs. 6.8 SPC. My state just legalized suppressors last year, and I don’t have one nor currently plan to get one, and for now SBRs aren’t legal here, so I’m looking at it only as a 16" barreled supersonic setup.
Not terribly relevant, but this statement made me think of just how long the MP5 has really been with us. I’ve a very close friend in Germany who is a senior Polizei officer, and he used to let me rummage around in their weapons locker. The MP5A3s on hand were all perfectly ready-to-go, but they had production code dates that correlated to 1968. It is high time indeed that we (finally) arrive at a more capable CQB solution than this dated benchmark, and I do like what I see in the .300 BLK SBR AR.
AC
I understand the draw of the 300 blackout if one plans to suppress it and shoot subs. But for those only interested in supersonic loads, wouldn’t something like the 7.62x40 WT make more sense?
I don’t own either and don’t plan on it in the foreseeable future, but I have wondered about this for a while. Is it just because the popularity of the blackout exceeds that of the WT and there are more options available, or are there issues with the WT?
What makes the 300 better for CQB?
If you’re only interested in supersonic loads, here’s the comparison:
300BLK:
-use most any standard AR15 magazine
-decent supply chain and multiple ammo companies loading ammo (Remington, Hornady, and now Federal among the big boys; Nosler introducing ammo soon; smaller companies loading include PNW Arms, Southwest Ammunition, Gunn (are they still around? can’t get their website to load), others I’m not familiar with)
-relatively easy to convert .223 brass if you reload
7.62x40 WT:
-only one company selling uppers, barrels, or ammo, last I knew
-need lightly modified magazines for reliable feeding (you can buy them from Wilson or attempt to modify them yourself)
-I’m not sure if you can convert .223 brass for this cartridge
Performance - looking at loads with the 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, Wilson sells a 7.62x40 WT load rated at 2350fps in a 16" barrel, while PNW Arms sells a 300BLK load rated at 2200fps in a 16" barrel, Nosler has announced a 300BLK load rated at 2250fps, and Remington sells a similar Accutip load rated at 2215fps. An extra 100-150fps is useful, but not huge. There are descriptions of 300BLK handloads at or exceeding 2350fps with that bullet, but I don’t know what pressures they are running.
In my analysis, the 7.62x40 WT offers a very small performance bump at the expense of being proprietary rather than a standard with increasing adoption. If someone’s looking at supersonic only and doesn’t mind needing special magazines, I would probably go with 6.8 SPC rather than 7.62x40 WT.
Thanks, makes perfect sense to me. It has been a question of mine for a while and seemed like a good time to ask.
Subsonic on par with suppressed MP5, but full power AK47-ish ballistics available with nothing more than a mag change.
I will hopefully get back on the 300BLK bandwagon later this year. Commercial ammo was the achilles heel of this round.
I remember last year CTD (those bastards!) had Remington 115’s for $12/box which I though was still too much; that is cheap in today’s standards. I did find 300BLK ammo in stock right now but for $30/box. Hopefully when I get into reloading this will not be an issue.
I have a 16 inch barrel with carbine gas system. I use 20 grains of H110 with CCI 450 primers to get those numbers with Sierra Pro Hunter 125’s and the Barnes 110 TTSX. However when I used that load with Nosler 125 BT’s I get excessive pressure signs so I stepped it down to 18.5 for those bullets.
The issue I see with the 7.62x40 WT is the lack of widespread support among manufacturers. I reminds me of the time over 20 years ago when the 40 Action Express was competing with the 40 S&W.
Now if only the factory ammo was available and didn’t cost so much, the winning trifecta would be there.
That’s it exactly.
I love the 300BLK round. I jumped on the bandwagon early 2012.
Put a 9" AAC 300blk barrel on my DD SBR; sold my 5.56 noveske barrel. I applied for a 762-SDN-6 suppressor tax stamp. While waiting for the can stamp to come in, I had a blast shooting my new round. Shot supers and subs without problems other than feeling a rubber o-ring on my extractor spring made my gun 100% reliable rather than 95% reliable. I shot a 250-300lb hog with 300 whisper and the round performed beautifully. Even found a store in Houston who claimed they were THE 300 blackout store in the area. All is well. Although I only had a mere 1000 rounds through the gun.
Then bam, madness hits, and I’ve been sitting on 500 rounds since. can’t find any ammo that I’m willing to buy. Haven’t been able to shoot suppressed yet and am considering making another 5.56 upper to sit on my DD SBR lower just so I get to use it. I hope things straighten back out because I was singing gloriously about the 300 blackout otherwise.
Lack of ammo. Marginal Accuracy. Price of ammo if you can find it.
Are you posting from rsilvers kitchen? :rolleyes: