Talk me out of a Springfield Kuna in .40 S&W?

General Firearms
1

I don’t want to hijack Euro’s thread about PCCs…

A couple weird caveats:

  1. I’m enough of a technophile to find the roller delay system cool, and to find a blowback in anything bigger than .380ACP to be cheap and heavy and unnecessarily hard-recoiling shortcut.

  2. I’m a .40 S&W guy, since before it was weird.

2a. My first gun was a .380ACP, and from there it just made sense to skip 9mm and go straight to .40.
Raise your hand if you’ve ever tired to load 9mm in a .380 or vice versa… Nobody mistakes .40 for .380 or vice versa.

2b. I came to guns in the early 1990s, when .40 was the hot new thing, and 9mm was still considered inadequate. I went all in. I’m now too old to change. I have 8 Glocks in .40, with an ample supply of mags. I have never owned a 9mm, and I doubt that I ever will.

2c. I had been jonesing for one of Ruger’s PCCs in .40, but I didn’t get one before they stopped production, and now the used ones are pricey, and see #1, above.

Nowadays it’s just about impossible to find another PDW/PCC in .40. I don’t want to pay for a KRISS (and see #1, above), and Hi-Point need not apply, and I don’t want a CMMG AR in .40.

  1. So, with great joy I saw that Springfield is going to bring the Kuna in .40 to the States… It seems about perfect for my purposes.

3a. I like the pseudo-UMP looks with the straight mag, I’ll cover the blocky forend with my favorite Magpul m-lok covers, and I’ll figure out some kind of semi-legal folding “brace” and a red dot so that I can actually shoot it (relatively) well.

3b. I trust Springfield and HS Produkt to have gotten this right, especially the roller delay system, which seems even more ingenious than HK’s original (in that it only uses one roller, rather than two).

3c. I don’t like proprietary mags, but given that MSRP on the mags is $25/each, then that’s OK, and as much as I like the OEM Glock .40 mags, they only hold 22rnds…

  1. Like the other thread says, I expect to use this as a PDW: When I want more than a Glock G22 with me, but can’t realistically schlepp an AR or a Benelli M2 along.
2

I say get one and run it until Springfield Armory has to replace it under warranty. Life is short. Lock in, blaze some targets, and share feedback!

3

9mm is indeed inadequate, but sadly the shooting community is absolutely NO smarter than the rest of the brainwashed masses.

Watch any decent sample of body cam footage of the current LE shootings, and you’ll see that 9mm is simply a mag dump round. Yes, a perfect head or heart shot will work with 9mm, but that’s not how real shootings work.

God bless your dedication to a real caliber. I’m a hard core Fortician too. Go for it.

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4

OPNGRND: I’m not aware of any problems… pseudo-journalistic reports that I’ve seen say that HS Produkt tested the bejeesus out of the .40 Kuna before the Brazilians opted for it, and every report I’ve seen about the 9mm version in the USA says that it just runs runs runs.

5

[quote=“markm, post:3, topic:485714”]9mm is indeed inadequate…

God bless your dedication to a real caliber.[/quote]

I don’t want to turn this into a 9mm vs. .40 debate: suffice to say that I’ve picked the latter, and I’m not going to change my mind.

I carry a .380ACP sometimes, so I’m not going to throw any rocks at the 9mm fans from my glass house.

On the other hand, I don’t understand chambering most of these subguns (PDWs) in only 9mm (Scorpion), or maybe also in 10mm or .45 AARP (B&T), but never ever .40 S&W.

In a subgun, where weight and recoil are non-issues, 9mm seems like a really silly choice.
(The Brits and Germans did this during WWII, but only because they were already issuing 9mm handguns and they only wanted to deal with one handgun cartridge.)

Because I’m committed to .40 for handguns, only a subgun in .40 makes sense. I don’t even want to have a 10mm around, because then I’m sure that at some point I’ll wind up loading 10s in 40s or vice versa (see .380 vs. 9mm, above).

6

In the absence of an MP5k-style gun in .40 being available i also considered the Kuna in .40.

However, watching videos of guys firing the 9x19 version, i think the recoil / muzzle rise would disappoint me.

I’ve had a couple 9mm blow-back carbines that had more kick & rise than a 5.56 rifle. (AR9, CX4)

Once you enjoy the smoothness of an MP5 style gun most other PCC’s are disappointing.

I was excited about the Vector .45, .45 Striborg & similar, but people report disappointing recoil & reliability with them. Ive only fired the Vector though.

I’m probably on a path to phase out the .40 i recently got back into in favor of .45 acp.

But a steller .40 semi sub-gun could pull me back in.

7

Don’t forget the S&W side-folding carbine. They made that in .40. Uses the pistol mags. Seems to be Keltec-type quality though. Built for plinking & range fun only.

8

[quote=“Ron3, post:6, topic:485714”]In the absence of an MP5k-style gun in .40 being available i also considered the Kuna in .40.

However, watching videos of guys firing the 9x19 version, i think the recoil/muzzle rise would disappoint me.[/quote]

I looked into an MP40 for about 10 minutes, and then figured out that it was basically impossible…

I’m still in the “reading reviews” stage (and who knows when the .40 Kuna will arrive in the States), but I’ve seen several that commented that the 9mm Kuna kicks less than the other PDWs, more like an MP5, due to the delayed roller system…

FWIW, I load light .40 loads for USPSA, and I don’t find the kick of .40 in a Glock G22 or G35 offensive at all. I can’t imagine recoil is that bad in a 5-lbs. PDW…

9

Good point… I’ve looked that those and the folding KelTecs.

Issues:

  1. They’re 16" barrels, which is stupid for handgun rounds and unnecessarily clumsy indoors or in a vehicle.

  2. I don’t like the idea of needing to unfold my gun, in a pinch, before I can shoot it.

  3. Cutting loose with a PDW with the stock folded wouldn’t be ideal, but at least the gun will function that way.

  4. As a bunch of guys pointed out in the PCC thread, it’s a lot better to use proper 30rnd mags in a PDW than to use 22rnd handgun mags.

  5. This is me being vain, but I think the folding guns are awkward and ugly…
    The Kuna looks like a nice gun to me.
    The KelTec and the S&W look like handguns that grew big noses and tails.

10

Yes on mild reloads. I do 180 gr coated bullet at 840 fps from my S&W M&P 2.0 Compacts and it is quite mild.

11

I totally agree with each point you made about the folding 16 in carbines.

12

My first pistol was a Star Firestar 40S&W. My second was a 9x18Mak chambered Makarov. My third was an H&K USP40. Since 9x18Mak is very close to 380ACP, I decided to self-ban purchasing 380ACP pistols. When the '94 AWB kicked in, I decided to self-ban 9mm pistols. If you’re going to be limited to 10 cartridges, 10 of a more powerful cartridge is logical. That all worked fine until the AWB expired in 2004. Over time, 9mm pistols became much more available while 40S&W offering dwindled. So, I gave in and decided to start adding 9mm pistols and PCC’s to my collection. Given how limited 40S&W offerings are now, it’s a good thing that I did. I have shot 380ACP pistols a few times. One thing that I’ve found is that they often have harsher recoil than comparable sized 9mm chambered pistols. I suppose this is due to them having fixed barrels while 9mm pistols don’t. I’ve more recently started adding 32ACP chambered pistols to my collection. The same pistols are often chambered in 380ACP, but I find the 32ACP recoil nice and easy. So, my pistol cartridges are 22LR, 32ACP, 9x18Mak, 9mm and 40S&W. I’ve never purchased a 45ACP pistol because I can almost always get the same pistol in 9mm or 40S&W. All this to say, we all have our own gun buying logic. Get the 40S&W Kuna just because you want it and let us know how it shoots.

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13

I agree. 8-9 inches or shorter is the way to go. For 16 inches I want an AR.

I have seen good reviews on the Kuna 9mm. I’m guessing the .40 version will be the same.

14

Amen to all of this… Though having 9x18 and 9x19 in the same space would make me nervous.

If I had it all to do over again, then maybe I wouldn’t have virtually exclusively Glocks in .40 S&W.
Now that I’m over 50 and way down that road, I’m not starting over with something else…

15

OK, now it’s been months, and there’s still no .40 Kuna…

Is Springfield really doing this?

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16

I haven’t seen one, either.
So i gave up on .40. (Or rather, the industry did) Been carrying .45 M&P 2’s. Just not enough new guns in the .40 cartridge.
Interested in the Ruger LCC .45 carbine, but the barrel is too long for a .45. (16.5 in) I’ll buy the pistol version if they make one.

I gave away my .40 cases & bullets and will sell my @2k rd stock of ammo. Except the reloads I’d already made. I got a Ruger P94 for those. :grin:Triggers a few memories.

Me getting back into .40 around 2024-2025 was a mistake. It’s a good cartridge, but the industry is basically done with it.

17

I’m still committed to .40, but a year later, I’m still waiting for Springfield to bring us a Kuna in .40…

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18

Finally, these are apparently now shipping, or even in stores… ImpactGuns has it “in stock,” and there are three on GunBroker right now.

It’s only weird because Springfield doesn’t show it on their website, anymore (they did, before), and there are no extra mags for sale…

19

Imagine the Aftermarket and OEM parts cost and availability

20

I’m not too worried about spare proprietary parts… I would expect that Springfield will make these available.

And the aftermarket is already there… It’s an M-Lok handguard, a 1913 rail at the rear and along the top, an AR pistol grip, and presumably a standard 9/16x28 threaded barrel.