Just read this from a thread in the ‘general’ forums segment.
http://designatedmarksman.com/files/TakingBackInfantryHalfK.pdf
Very good reading. I’m looking for comment from the guys that are there or been there.
Also, if Dr. Roberts (DOCGKR) has any comment.
Please hold any dissing of any cartridge vs another. We don’t need another worthless exchange on any and all sides.
I’m looking for real world shooters/users over in Afghanistan and their input mainly.
Thanks
I think you meant 1/2 kilometer which is 500m, right?
you have 500k which is 500,000. that’s a lot…
Thanks for the post. Pretty interesting information.
Very good read! A+
Great read!!! Thanks for the post!
My vote is for the 6.5 Grendel 
But I guess the 6.8 SPC would still provide improvement to lethality at further distances as well 
I think that we should pull all the M1’s and put them into Sage stocks and deploy with them.
I have had some contact with the author. He is open to suggestions on how fix the knowledge Vs Hardware issue.
He has a very interesting look on the OODA loop…
Observe
Overreact
Destroy
Apoligize
I am sure he has his feet to the fire now.
I think he’s right, that the 5.56mm isn’t optimal for what it’s being used for.
But really, I think should field DMR’s to each squad (like he suggested), standardizing them, such as the M110.
Improve/adjust Marksmanship training.
Consider a new Standard Issue Weapon.
I like the 6.5mm as well, but it’s less effective than the 6.8 SPC until it hits 400 meters. So you have something that is less effective than 6.8 SPC from 1-400 meters, but more effective at 400-1000 meters.
I really think we don’t need to abandon the 5.56mm platform as much as we really need to address the needs of your regular infantry squad from 200-600 yards.
I think we need to adopt a new caliber in that range, and maybe a new weapons system.
I really think, of the things that are most feasible are, change the current training/requirements of marksmanship training, define the role of the DMR and standardize equipment, maybe even form a separate school and issue more M110’s.
That would be my order of priorities. Simply because, I think you can do all of those things with the current assets of the Army.
DMR’s are great, and I think they definitely have a place, but I think they need to change the Army’s Marksmanship Program completely, not just one guy’s out of a squad of 9, but I think he needs more training as well.
That’s my non-military outsider perspective .02 after reading that article.
Well, if they would hand out a bunch of ACRs, they could chamber all three rounds fairly easily (5.56mm, 6.5 grendel, 6.8 spc)… [no anti-ACR flak please!]
http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/acr.htm#/intro
But then again, we have a ways to go before the military starts using the ACR weapon system in a widespread fashion… at least that’s what I’ve heard :o
Given our current administration, I don’t see a complete rearmament in the future for Small Arms in the military.
I think we’ll continue to make due on the M16/M4 for awhile. Especially since most branches are finding weapons to augment them, or work around their deficiencies.
IE, the M110 in the Army, and the HK IAR in the USMC.
Just my opinion. I think they’re going to cut budget somewhere sooner or later, and I think that’s going to be the defensive budget ASAP.
It really is unfortunate that one of the first cuts that occurs is the defense budget… especially when there are technologies out there that would help protect our troops and make it easier for them to complete the tasks at hand.
But like I mentioned, I do agree that we have a ways to go before we see the ACR in the hands of our soldiers… hopefully sooner rather than later… but time will tell.
I don’t want to get too political, but, typically, that’s been the Trend with Liberal presidents. Cut budget somewhere where it’s acceptable among their consituents.
That’s pretty much the Department of Defense.
Sad part is it’s what like 2% of our Annual Budget?
But let’s not stray too far off topic.
military spending? no… it’s over half. something like 60%.
And I got that figure from a West Point Cadet visiting me last week.
Figures. 
So yes… Yes, when I say 2% I meant 60.
well if you’re just gonna take my word for it, you haven’t learned anything from this lesson.
You know, I was just thinking that. I looked it up and came back to post info, hahaha.
It appears that it was 23% in 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States
I think he might have said GDP, not our budget. Which he said it was 2%, which when looking at the info at that article, it was 4% in 2008… So it’s not hypothetically that off…
Anyway, that’s all the time I have set aside for this tonight.
ETA: That’s also wikipedia, so take it with a Grain of Salt, as that’s not exactly an “experts” opinion and consistency article to article is… unobtainable in that environment, so, it’s not even exact in that article, well, it may be exact, but the intentions of the author and estimations could be over estimated or under estimated.
It’s open to the public, I prefer not to use them as a source. But that’s taking an off tangent rant, that much further off topic. Still, I think the Author has a point, how many F22’s did we field last year, and yet for the cost of one of those we could put two M110’s in the hands of every squad.
ETA 2: I also had a friend who came back, he just got out of the USMC, did two tours in Iraq, and didn’t think the world of the M110… He said they used them primarily for subsonic shooting, and left the accuracy work up to the M40’s (I believe that’s what they’re currently using in the USMC, I believe the A3…), but, I think he also failed to grasp the mission of the DMR and it was probably fielded to them as a replacement for Bolt Rifles, not to supplement squad assets.
But you’d also have to look at what I read over on Silencer Talk, initially they had issues where the Muzzle Crowns weren’t being cleaned properly in field or some kind of issue such as that and accuracy was suffering, he also hadn’t been over there since I think maybe 2006-2007, possibly early to mid 2008 he got back. So maybe they could’ve changed the production guns?
I might have to ask him about it when I see him again.
totally agree
+1 :rolleyes:
No its not. HOWEVER, you are about right on the Defense spending’s piece of the “Discretionary Budget”. That is the budget that does not include all the entitlements and other things the President has no control over.
i’m not current enough on my education to argue with anyone over it- but however you shake it, whether going by a “budget” or end-result “spending,” i remember from my studies that over half of every tax dollar goes to “military spending.” that includes the VA, which is a large chunk all by itself.
but, as i said, i don’t have much to stand on. :o
this seems to back me up, and was the first search result, but take into account who’s posting it (warresisters.org… i’m sure they don’t EVER skewer the facts). http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm
Actually read what the link you posted says… It is interesting how they conveniently add in all sorts of things as military spending. And what they discount as govt spending (Social Security, as it supposedly is a trust fund, for example).
About 25 cents of every tax dollar is spend on Defense Spending. About 60 cents of every tax dollar spent on discretionary spending (which does not include the entitlements, ie, welfare and social security, as well as other mandated by law budget items) is Defense related spending. Those numbers are freely available from the gov as well as a bunch of other websites.
Cheers