Tactical Ropes Day Scheduled - Portland - April 23rd

Training Pacific Northwest Training and Networking
1

since this thread is getting long/cluttered, i’m editing the first post with pertinent information as well as the roster.

intent:

day to practice rappels- tactical and/or E&E (escape and evasion)

necessary gear:

as i’ve said, it depends on what YOU want to work on. if you just want to have fun and learn straight up rappelling, then i’d suggest either renting a sport climbing pack from a local climb shop- probably $25 for the day- or buying a harness, 'biners, belay device, etc. if you rent a sport climbing package, you’ll have everything you need. CORRECTION- you still need to bring your own leather gloves.

so loadout for tactical rappel, to buy:

  • harness $45-$90, for a good sport climbing harness, or $150-$300+ for an authentic “tactical” harness (not recommended). any climbing shop, and REI, unless you want the fancy shit- then you need to check out Yates gear online
  • HMS locking carabiner $10-$20, any shop, REI
  • belay device… some suggestions-
    …ATC - $12-$16 at REI,
    …DMM V-Twin - $25-$30 (no longer in production, but US Outdoors in portland still has some- these are very good devices for rappelling, as they don’t get hot)
    …figate - $3-$15 (also doesn’t get hot, and is the traditional standard, but can be difficult to control, they twist the rope, and are generally considered obsolete outside of the tactical community) available for $3 at Climb Max in portland, or you can get the supposedly better (i’ve never tried it) Super 8 at REI for like $15… they probably have regular figates too.
    …Grigri - $75ish at REI - these, and similar devices, are sort of cool for rappelling where you know you’ll need to make a lot of lock-off stops or have to fuck with gear, etc… anything that will require quick stopping or both hands
    whatever you do- please don’t bring a “tube” or “pyramid” type device… they get way too hot, and i’m anal about heat on nylon. i don’t even like the ATC, for rappelling, but it’s what everyone seems to have…
  • basic thicker leather gloves. in my opinion, from a cost perspective, you cannot beat Walmart’s $8 “Wells Lamont” gloves. get a pair that fits close, but not tight.
  • helmet if you want (if we get the building, probably not gonna wear it) $40-$140+

grand total: $80 - $285ish+, and you’d be perfectly outfitted at $80. when in doubt, go as basic as you can.

anyone feel free to point out anything i’m missing

for a purely E&E day on the rope-

  • 18’ of 1" or wider, preferably tubular, rated nylon webbing, available at MOST climbing shops (many don’t carry webbing that wide, so call ahead), and REI has plenty. i personally don’t trust surplus shop webbing- those places have no problem selling JUNK $5? nothin’ -or- you can bring 12-13’ of 11mm’ish (don’t go much thinner) ROPE rather than webbing, to make a “swiss seat”… price will be about the same
  • HMS locking carabiner $10-$20
  • leather gloves $8
  • helmet if you want $40-$140+
  • basic rappel device (I’m going to demonstrate the munter hitch, and probably everyone who wants to will get to try it, but it unnecessarily tears up the rope) - if you’re willing to put out the bucks, and you live less than 200’ from the ground, then a Grigri is actually a really good investment for an E&E kit. might save your life, if you have to rappel in a panic.

grand total - $25 - $100

feel free to pm me for clarification/whatever

who’s invited:

8 people physically fit enough for intense fear and a possibly near-vertical climb back up (depending on location, which is still a question-mark)

roster, thus far:

  1. bkb0000
  2. tradja
  3. misty
  4. misty’s boy
  5. alvin
  6. t-bone

where/when:

Saturday, April 23, 2011. currently have Rocky Butte in Portland as our fallback plan, but i’m trying to find a BUILDING or appropriate bridge, for authentic urban rappel

note on gear compatibility-

if you’re bringing guns (and you should be), i pretty much suggest you plan to open carry. if i carry during the event, i will likely go to a drop-leg holster and OC, because hip carry and harness wearing don’t really mesh well. IWB is especially un-cool- a large portion of your weight will be compressing the gun into your hip, and it’s not only very uncomfortable, but probably not a great thing to subject your weapon to. gun in a backpack also works, if you don’t want to OC.

feel free to bring your carbine and range loadout. all i ask is that you keep the weapon empty and have an orange chamber flag inserted while we’re on the wall. it MAY end up not being a great idea to bust out the hardcore stuff, depending on where we end up and how many anti-gun hippy climber types we may or may not have around us.

disclaimer:

rappelling is dangerous. if your equipment fails, or if you make a simple mistake, you could easily die or suffer serious injury. there will be no instructors on-site- just a bunch of crazy yahoos slappin’ each other with the hotmops and shit.

see the rest of the thread for further details, feel free to PM me or post

2

I would love to do some of that. I am a rope/rescue tech at my fire department…it would be fun to do some different stuff.
But, Portland is a bit far for me.
You never know, if something does get planned, I might just have to crash the party!

3

it’d be awesome if i could get at least one other guy experienced with ropes. one guy tail-braking at the bottom, one guy for instruction up top. that way i wouldn’t feel compelled to put up a gay-ass top-rope. where are you located?

4

I am located about 30 minutes east of Tacoma.
It sounds like an awesome opportunity. Is it goin to simply be rappeling, or other things thrown in there?

5

I’d be down for this.

6

I’d have some interest if the timing were right.

7

I’m very interested. I’m a casual recreational rock climber and could bring a 60m dynamic rope, 1 medium men’s harness, 1 small women’s harness, ATC, misc other gear, and could be the bottom brakeman. I’ve only rappelled using an ATC and a Grigri and would be very interested to learn other techniques (body friction, Figure 8, etc).

I’ve never integrated my tactical training and my basic climbing skills - they’ve always been separate hobbies for me, though they are similar in strict safety requirements and attention to detail. I don’t readily see the application, but heck, I’d be down for a tactical cooking class. This would be very interesting.

I’d be coming from Bend and would be down to carpool.

8

gonna depend entirely on who’s coming and who knows what. i’d much rather it be a collective knowledge sharing day than a “class.” we’d be able to cover more advanced stuff, and move through it faster. but if we just end up with a cluster of noobs, i’m totally OK with that too… we just won’t have the time to get past the basics of anchors, knots, and descending. regardless, i want to have plenty of time to run through exercises to some degree of competency… new guys should get at least three clean rappels. i’ve never been big on “classes” where you’re basically just shown a few things you don’t understand, given one, maybe two opportunities to rap, then told to get out of the way. quality over quantity.

i’m still in the “that would be cool” phase of planning, though… i have no course outline or plan of any sort… just gaging interest. as people show interest, i’ll start refining my intent.

9

i’m using the term “tactical” loosely… basically just differentiating between what we’d be doing and, say, sport application… although there’s plenty of crossover. really, i should call it “E&E ropes day,” since that’s more what i have on my mind. “tactical” would tend more toward the few various rappelling styles- basic ass-down, invert, geneva… we’ll only be covering ass-down, unless we get out there and everybody already happens to know it sleeping.

but definitely will cover improvisation- improv harnesses, improv anchors, improv/other belaying- munter (“improvised” for those of us used to ATCs), 5-'biner brake, maybe figure 8- although i feel the figure 8 is basically obsolete and unnecessarily dangerous, this day and age. i haven’t done much with body friction- nothing genuine- but maybe i’ll fuck around with a couple methods for demonstrative purposes. that IS, afterall, the quintessential “improvised” method.

10

Gotcha. Sounds great and I’m in. The improvised gear and techniques would be of great interest to me. Let me know if I can bring any of my limited gear once we get it scheduled.

11

Would be interested, depending on schedule. I have an assortment of gear from mountaineering days that could be used. I haven’t used in in a few years and would be good to do some refreshing of the skills.

12

i’m back.

anyway…

i’m not sure the spot i had in mind is gonna be a good place, for several reasons… not least of all, it’s a public cliff area, and can get super crowded. usually not, but it’d suck if we roll in and the two walls that are only semi-appropriate for new guys rappelling are being climbed. i think it’s unlikely, but possible. it’s also pretty treacherous up there when damp/wet… so if it rains at all, the danger level spikes. i’m gonna start thinking about a new venue, still within the portland metro area. if anybody spies any good walls/cliffs/abandoned warehouses/semi-hidden bridges/etc, let me know.

as to the “course outline,” we can cover whatever you guys are interested in. MY thinking is to focus on E&E, but let me know what your interests are, and i’ll see what i can work out. if nobody has any interest in E&E, we can just do some straight up full tactical loadout rappelling and have fun. let me know what you’re interested in.

as to costs…

to put together a full rappel kit will run you probably $60-120 in gear, depending on the type of harness you get… REI actually has one for about $40- the Black Diamond Bod. plus an additional $150-200+ for a rope, depending on your rope needs. for our training day purposes, you can use my rope. rappel devices vary a lot, but are generally between $12-$90, and you can even get “figates” (figure 8s) for $3 at Climb Max in portland right now (also a great place to get the rest of your gear- very cool, very helpful people).

to put together a full E&E kit will run you probably $20-25 in gear (not including rope)… so there’s obviously a pretty big difference in gear requirements.

to RENT a rock climbing package (harness, carabiner, belay/rappel device, shoes (won’t need them), chalk (won’t need it), and helmet, will probably cost you around $20-25 at one of several local climbing shops

the first two don’t include hemlet, which, depending on where we end up doing this, may or may not be required. the biggest concern is falling rock… so if there’s no risk of that, we can probably get away without it. but helmets are still always a good idea- dropped gear splits your head open just as easily as rock, from 80’ up… and smashing into the wall head-first also tends to lacerate/abrade head flesh. i’ve yet to see anyone do the latter, but anything can happen. doesn’t necessarily need to be a climbing helmet- ballistic helmets, hard-hats will work fine… those fancy multi-hundred-dollar non-ballistic head-gear crash helmets some of you guys have will also work fine.

13

Welcome back.

Any word on scheduling?

14

A number of years ago, we would use Rocky Butte. Not the climbing cliffs but the man-made stone structure at the top. Not sure if it would even be allowed anymore but a thought.

15

Whenever… probably schedule it out into spring, for the hopes of better weather.

rocky butte is exactly what i had in mind- the climbing area. ropes are prohibited on the “castle” up top now… we still use it for bouldering, but no chalk and no ropes, is the new rule. and since there’s usually about a billion people up there, it’s probably best to comply.

16

That sucks. Used to go there 10-11 years ago. There would not be anyone up there to speak of. I guess the climbing thing has become way to popular. Horsethief Butte out past the Dalles has some pretty good cliffs but there were always more people out there + it is a long drive (at least for me it is longer than I am willing to drive).

Anyone have an in on a fire department’s training tower? (I know, not likely to be allowed)

17

yea… climbing has pretty much blown up in the last decade. what used to be mysterious is now easily knowable, thanks to the internets… so people are doing shit they never would have otherwise done these days. thats my theory, anyway.

horsethief is definitely far for a day rappelling. there’s several spots in the gorge, both OR and WA side, that are half that… but for just plain rappelling, there’s places right smack in the middle of portland- just need to find/decide on one. i can think of several places right off the top of my head that will make due, but i’m holding out for ideal. there’s a couple bridges sort of off the beaten path that might make decent spots, as well as a couple abandoned buildings that i want to check out. all right along highway 30 as you leave town. hoping to get time to investigate this weekend.

18

Bump…any news? I’m still interested.

19

haven’t really been thinking about anything involving ropes while this weather has been so awful. absolutely terrible. perpetually wet and freezing cold. all we need is a spot, and we can schedule… ill start looking again- this weathers got to clear up at some point.

we’ll probably just end up going to rocky butte. it’s not a bad place, just not ideal for straight up rappelling. there’s a really low wall… probably 25’… at the top of the buttress thing sort of in the middle of the bluff that has a pretty easily scalable boulder pile right next to it. i could probably throw one of my fat lifelines down there, and people can jug back up. if we’re doing rocky butte, it’d be cool to hit one of the taller walls… the wizard wall would be awesome (absolutely terrifying)… but that would save a shit ton of time, and allow everyone to go down 6, 10, 12 times each, probably. the more the better.

20

it occurs to me that i have surgery scheduled for the 27th of April and will be in rehab for 6-8 weeks after that… so we should probably get this thing scheduled ASAP.

why don’t we just go ahead and schedule it for the weekend prior? April 23rd or 24th. whats better you for guys, sat or sun?