Stolen Valor? Or no?

General General Discussion
1

I am a merchant marine. A civilian, and nothing else during times the US is not at war. (If the US declares war we merchant marines “can be” called upon to help supply the battle lines via ship).
I went to a maritime academy and graduated with a United States Coast Guard issued license. I’ve been keeping my license current and up to date with the USCG for 18 years and counting.

Today I work as a harbor pilot and have my State’s Commission through a letter from the governor to work as a state appointed pilot. My service to the state is to protect the shores and harbors by bringing in ships safely and securely to the port(s).

I am also a First Responder. The county I work in has deemed myself and my group of coworkers to be beneficial during times of hurricane or any other disaster that could occur on the coast. The county officials know they can use our expertise as well as our readily available and heavily capable pilot boat for rescue and recon services.

I don’t go about toting my services nor try to stand out as a person of any sort of service. Believe me, I know and respect those of the active service, as well as some vets. My wife’s (also a merchant marine) younger brother is a USMC marine. Her sister is a Major in the USAF and HER husband is a General in the USAF. See, I know folks who deserve the respect, for sure.

But my question is: for example: when I am asked at a ticket counter if anyone is active military, Vet, law enforcement etc. I usually throw out that I am a merchant marine, US coast guard licensed, and a first responder in my county. Viola! I get the discount. Never thought much about it.

Well, today at the Williamsburg Colonial park in VA at the ticket counter I said I am a merchant marine yada yada, got the discount, then I got a little blue star on my display tag. A few people throughout the day noticed and thanked me for my service. I’m not used to it. A few asked what my mos was and I explained how I’m a merchant marine. I just help ships deliver goods to this country. Yadayada. USCG license yadayada. But also a first responder yadayada, “if war broke out” yadayada. I dunno. Is this stolen Valor?

Turns out, a lot of people know other merchant marines. We aren’t an armed force, so we are not really celebrated, and I get it. Old joke back at the academy was always “we could get shot at, but we don’t EVER get to shoot back…we’re just sitting ducks”

2

If they gave you a blue star, then you are a blue star. Not everybody is Audie Murphy, some people just bring Audie Murphy the stuff he needs to do MoH stuff. That seems to be you.

If you can be called into harms way, then I think you qualify regardless of if it has ever happened or not. It’s not like you misrepresented yourself for personal gain.

3

I don’t mean to sound harsh with this.

I wouldn’t consider it Stolen Valor, but I don’t consider you a Vet either.
If you served during wartime carrying military cargo to a war zone I’d consider you a Vet.

I’m a recently retired Marine Engineer, my license expired last Dec. I served four years in the Navy then got my MMD and went back to sea to earn my Engineer’s License.

I may be off base with my assessment but having done both I know what I have in mind when I declare my Veterans status.

Although, I knew some academy grads that were commissioned in the Naval Reserve. I thought that was standard.
Maybe it’s only Kings Point and not the state academy’s.

4

if you were never active reserves meaning you report to duty once a month ,and a 2 week stretch once a year or served a hitch of active duty in a recognized branch of the US Armed Services i would not consider you a vet , its pretty clear those things are required ,and its very black and white , if you have to paint a picture like you just displayed to get there and still have to ask i think deep down you already know the answer to your question ,if you cant say yes to at least one of those two most basic of requirements and are going around presenting yourself as a vet i think you’re more than stretching ,and are deep in scumbag territory , are you able to go to the VA for health care? i doubt it

if it were me , i would never feel comfortable trying to color those lines , not to diminish that resume , but your question was does your resume constitute Veteran status , for me no , i may be wrong but harbor master doesnt cut it , a requirement certificate for harbor master from the CG doesnt get you there , my understanding is the cert from the Coast Guard is under their jurisdiction because they need to be sure you know what you are doing , its not a enlistment process , a hypothetical war time scenario on a civilian vessel simply doesnt get you there , a merchant Marine is not a branch of armed service

to be a veteran means you served actively ,you put your life on hold to serve your country in its defense , i served in the US Submarine Service , if you tally the time i spent on a Sub submerged i have more than 2 years of my life that expired submerged under the ocean , all the men in my family and the women in my family have started to adopt this as well must serve at least one hitch in the armed services , it does not matter if you are a cook in the Coast Guard ,fighter pilot or a Navy Seal you do a hitch , if one of my family members tried to pull this crap to get out of their obligation they would get their ass kicked

5

what branch did you serve, it seems you subscribe to a loose interpretation of what qualifies as a vet , sorta like what ive never heard come from a vet ,which it would surprise me to here you say you are , no veteran is going to accept this as “close enough” as you imply “well its not like you did it for personal gain” , WTF is that ?

no ones saying the guy needs to be a war hero , or battle hardened , or floating in the south pacific for a week with sharks to call himself a vet, only that he meets the most basic of requirements , to have actually served in a branch of the US Armed Services , a merchant marine is not a veteran , a harbor pilot is not a veteran , a certificate for a course issued by the CG makes a veteran not, family members who served does not make you a veteran , nothing the OP listed qualifies as veteran status , so technically yes its stolen valor because hes presenting himself as such on the backs of those that have served , someone who pulls this crap i would never have a beer with , someone who enables someone like this i would never have a beer with

6

It’s only stolen valor if you lie. If you’re honest about what you do/did and some place gives you a discount for that, it’s not stolen valor. I wouldn’t really call you a veteran but I don’t use that term anyways because it’s definition is loose AF.

This isn’t something to even worry about IMO.

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7

this is also bullshit , the term Veteran is loose? oh please explain ,do tell , i need to hear this

its only stolen valor if you lie , the very fact hes calling himself a veteran is a lie

this is like hes saying hes a MLB player , and you’re saying , well he did play little league as a kid , AND received participation trophies so theres that

8

Slow your roll, hero. He never called himself a vet nor did he even ask if he was a vet. A business gave him a discount and he’s asking if that’s ok. It’s up to the business to define and their employees to decide if people meet that definition.

And yes it’s loose because there are plenty of shit people that “earn” that term.

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9

he is trying to connect himself as a veteran because he is a merchant marine , harbor pilot , bass fisherman , bat mitten player who knows what , thats wrong , if he wants a pin for first responder fine he has eared that HE asked if it was stolen valor to call himself a veteran and laid out his qualifications that he felt that did , the answer is no , nothing he presented qualifies him as a veteran , as such if he goes around checking the box are you a veteran , then YES that is stolen valor

what branch did you serve , since your doling out hall pass’s and participation trophies for everyone

and no , Veteran is not a loose term , you either are or you are not , it really is that cut and dry

i think you should take a field day through a VA hospital sometime and then explain to me how loose of a term “Veteran” is

10

What branch did I serve? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Why don’t you learn to read and write first. Then take some time to also get over yourself and stop trying to get into mil service dick measuring contests on a gun forum. Nobody thinks it’s cool.

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11

Are you a vet? No.

Is it stolen valor? No.

It sounds as if you serve your community and possibly our nation. Thank you.

If someone wants to give you a discount so be it. Many public service people get discounts at many different venues.

Keep in mind that just because you ask many won’t feel comfortable saying no, whether they agree or not.

12

Most people don’t know what a merchant marine is so there is that. You aren’t active, reserve or retired military, law enforcement, fire department or ems so yeah it’s a bit shady but whatever I don’t get worked up over private companies giving discounts to whoever.

Just to get in on the fun I’ll add that I don’t consider anyone a veteran that didn’t deploy to a combat zone. That’s how we were raised in my old unit.

13

I don’t disagree with Wake that the word veteran is used loosely.

An example: I and my best friend both retired with a bit over 20 years in the Army and for most of that time we shared an MOS. I deployed 3 times, he never deployed. The VA and civilian world make no distinction between us, we are both veterans. I can go to the Vet Center, he cannot.

Another example: I work with at least 4 retired SF/Ranger SNCOs who also deployed multiple times. I was a maintainer, they were tip of the spear. My service does not equate to theirs, but we are all veterans who spent years in combat zones.

Yet another example: 2 of my sons served - 1 USMC Combat Engineer, 1 US Army Airborne Infantry. Neither deployed to a combat zone. Their service carries as much weight in my mind as my own.

Andy

14

That’s a strict interpretation, millions would say you’re wrong. Maybe that’s why we have VFWs and combat vets, to differentiate. I think it’s arrogant to diminish anyone’s faithful service.

15

I’m not saying it’s right, just how we were brought up in the early units I was in. Marines are assholes I guess.

We had a boot show up to the unit with USMC Veteran plates on his truck. His home state handed them out to anyone that was in the military. Didn’t go over well with our senior enlisted.

16

The words “in my old unit” make a difference here. We had an informal visit with a general in the mid-2000s and he overtly did not speak to anyone without a combat patch. We “veterans” were amused.

Andy

17

First of all, complete sentences and punctuations are your friends, not your enemies. They’d make your posts a lot more readable.

Second, you also sound like a person a lot of people would likely not have a beer with, vet or not.

Third, getting to substance, while technically the VA definition is correct because they have to make the definition to determine who is eligible for what bennies, I am fine with calling any reserve or national guard veteran a veteran even if they were not recalled to active duty. They signed the contract and swore the same oath. So while the VA will treat them differently, to me, yes, they are a veteran.

Germaine to the question, is it stolen valor? No. The law specifies pretty clearly what stolen valor really is. Are you a vet? No. But what you are getting isn’t going to cause me to hate you or lose sleep at night.

18

I agree with several others who said that it’s up to the business to determine the qualifications for a discount, not us. When asked if you are a Vet you say you are a Merchant Marine, you don’t agree to “Vet” so I don’t see that as lying. You made the distinction.

Having said that, my opinion is worthless since I did not serve in any capacity. Just throwing it out there that I don’t think it’s stolen valor.

Please tell me you wrote it that way on purpose! LOL

19

Double Tap…

20

I know people who never made it out of boot camp that have veteran license plates. It’s a very subjective term. Stolen valor is a very narrow and specific definition. You’re good to go, you put in some time enjoy your discounts if it’s important to you.

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