Some People Should Never Be Allowed Near An AR-15

AR/M4 AR General Discussion
41

I am going to tell you something. I am not going to charge someone with a felony for dumping a few quarts of used motor oil (and I am the guy who enforces this) unless he has done it several times after previous attempts by me wth NOV’s and then Orders to straighten his ass out. Likely, I will drag him in front of the Magistrate before it ever goes to the Felony level.

If I am going straight to felony charges, he has willfully and deliberately improperly disposed of a very large quantity of product.

If he earns a felony criminal complaint from me, he has earned it in spades and is not someone you want to have a gun anyway. Going criminal is the last step on someone who you just can’t reach.

42

Quietshootr is right.

Pat, hit the code books and calculate all the ways you can become a convicted felon these days.

In some states, a 2nd, third, or fourth conviction for simple assault, or disorderly conduct in a couple, will make you a felon. I know more than a few college kids who picked up a few of these, and went on to be fine folks.

Then there’s various crimes against or relating children that are penalty-classified as felonies. Ever know a parent with an out of control teen that had truancy issues? Should making them a felon after ~3 truancy violations (“failure to school children”, etc) disqualify them from firearms ownership?

How about a single, or second conviction for CCWing without a permit?

Certain financial crimes or regulatory infractions?

Environmental crimes?

How about a single large-game violation in most states?

The label “convicted felon” is pretty diulted these days. I get pretty unimpressed when I hear it used without more information.

43

I can appreciate where you’re coming from but you’re not the only one who can charge someone with a felony and there are times where it isn’t warranted. If a person is a non-violent felon then I believe their rights should be completely restored after they’ve paid their debt to society.

44

Good on you, that gives folks hope.

Unfortunately, there are others like you with management that affords them no discretion, and prosecutors that will up-charge submitted cases to satisfy their own agendas, administrative mandates, etc.

I’m prefer to see a groundswell of support for (de-felonizing?) much in the criminal code, broadening misdemeanor penalty options. Concurrently, revision of other code that impacts the exclusions and limitations of the various categories of felon so that the label has more meaning again.

45

It’s not just me.

The judge would laugh me out of court for bringing felony charges for dumping a few quarts. I doubt the prosecutor would touch it either, he wants to bring cases he can win.

He wants to either see a pattern or someting real big.

Most people who get convicted get a fine and community service (picking up trash).

I think there is one person in the state right now who is under a felony for open dumping and that is because he busted the terms of his probation for a misdemeanor conviction. Again, this is someone who had blown off repeated attempts and an unbelievable amount of compliance assistance at trying to get his ass in the right.

We have primacy so the EPA isn’t going to come in behing us and write someone on federal charges unless we really, really drop the ball. Generally, they come in on something really big and political.

Generally, compared to most law enforcement, the chance of jail is much less, the chance of a five to six figure (possibly seven) fine are far greater because the fine monies are used for clean-ups. Most of the big en’s are for corporations and governments. I like to be toughest on the .gov as they should be setting the example.

Anyway, enough OT.

46

Agree 2nd ammendment protects even the idiots. If you see something comprimising your safety or the safety of others then say something. I’m no expert but I can tell when someone doesn’t know what they are doing. I very politely start up a conversation and then politely explain that loading with your finger on the trigger with the barrel pointed up is a bad idea and so on.

47

So since this original subject is about people that should never be allowed near an AR, I think this guy deserves some thought.

I went to a range near my fathers house the other day to introduce him and my sister’s fiance to the AR platform. My father taught me to shoot, to hunt, to hike, to play pool, to be me, so I was really looking forward to showing him the AR (he’s a hunter, owns now automatic weapons, only those firearms he deems necessary to live off the land).

The range we went to was public, and they let us shoot because we explained that he is an ex-pat and only in the states 2 months a year. The range officer was amazing!

Anyway I walk up to the range with one 30 rnd, and one 10 (I live in NY and I think a 10 rounder is good for teaching people). I notice when I walk up this guy sitting at a bench. From where I was I could tell he had a Troy rail system, with some form of vertical hand grip, standard collapsible stock, an Eotech with a an Aimpoint 3x magnifier, and 2, yes 2 Beta Mags. To his right is a group of two people shooting two ARs that I couldn’t see, and to his left is a guy with a SIG .556 in a gun rest that he is simply showing off and swabbing the barrel. They all seem together.

So anyway I watch this guy shoot while the range master is talking to us. I watch him send rounds down range (small range), and I notice that the bullet impacts are striking a large 10" target set at 40ish yards that is about 20 degrees to his right and actually the far left target of the people next to him. By the time his rounds hit the 100 yard berm they have travelled through all of the other three lanes to his right. I was pretty dumb struck… Then he proceeds to let off a volley of poorly controlled rapid fire that leaves a nice 7 foot pattern at the end of the range. The officers were pretty pissed about this, but no one noticed his angle until later.

We sit down and shoot. My Dad is elated, his groups were tighter then he ever thought was possible given the round and barrel, my sister’s fiance is an insane natural for only having shot two other times, and to tell you the truth I’m jealous… After my Dad’s third round of 5 I hear the above guy’s friends ask him what he’s shooting at! He explains his target, and they tell him that they set that one up in their lane for their last set of shots. He shrugs.

We then move on to the .270 and do some shots. After my first group of three I place the rifle down and leave the bench. I notice this guy standing behind our booth and smirking at us, and in particular at my AR (MP 15 OR w/ BUIS zeroed at 50 yrds with no optic, I love this gun). I ignore him.

After one set of 270 we go back to the AR. After we left the range my Dad told me that this guy then proceeded to sweep his left hand lanes (of which I was on the line) while he was trying to wrestle the Beta Mag free from his gun. He actually put the weapon in his armpit and proceeded to pull down while pointing the gun towards fellow shooters. The range officer and him spoke for a while in a heated way, but since the session was close to over he stayed but didn’t shoot again.

The last thing heard from this guy was him talking with the show off next to us who never fired a shot the entire hour about how he was upset that they wouldn’t let him shoot his M203. The guy next to him asked what rounds he had and he said blue smoke only at this point…

SO WTF? This guy had every fancy toy in the book. Couldn’t hit a group if it killed him. While our groups at 50 yrds were impressive with Irons (mine was the worst honestly and I am pretty ashamed of that), he was shooting the wrong target at 40 with a 3x magnifier? He sweeped us with a beta mag, A million toys, a hot gun, and obviously enough money to afford it all, and yet to tell you the truth he fit my picture of someone that shouldn’t own an AR (or any gun) more then anyone I have ever met. He obviously has experience in the platform, and shooting, but what the hell?

What do you guys think of people like this?

48

Unfortunately, many people will treat firearms like toys. Add to that a lot of people don’t want to be told what to do or hear the suggestion that they could benefit from training.

Love it or hate it, most places in the U.S. do not require training as a prerequisite to buying a firearm. Many people will wing it just like they do with the other devices they own.

There was a time when everyone of us was new to shooting. Where would we have ended up without proper guidance and training? As others have said, we should try to help new shooters / untrained shooters at least be safe and if possible with some of the basics.