She has made it clear that this is what she wants as her firearm. She is familiar, experienced and comfortable with it. And it’s the right size for her small frame.
I disagree with her on it for a lot of reasons, but I want her to have access to her own weapon and this is what she wants.
So, to sort of compromise on this, who makes a .30 Cal M4?
What is wrong with a 5.56 “M4”?
My recommendation would be a BCM with the midlength gas system. I bought one last year on the advice of others on this forum and it has been a great carbine.
Why a .30cal?
???
5.56 w/ 62g loads is working OK for our armed forces in extremely violent urban combat…75g TAP would be a lot better and easy to get for civilian use. Or…get her a 6.8. I’d be really psyched if my wife wanted an M4, I want her to want one…and will probably build her one whether she wants it or not!
Because neither of us considers it to be a plinking gun. It will not be treated as any kind of toy. We’re not looking to make it look cool and show it off or do any kind of special tricks with it.
If it gets used for anything other than basic range practice it needs real knockdown because lives are on the line. 5.56 don’t do it.
I tried to point her toward weapons I think are better for that job; she likes this one. So I want to put together the best one I can for her.
This seems to be the place to get the information most easily so I can do just that.
She and I are both members of said forces. It’s why we don’t like the 5.56 or the 9mm
Wow…
I agree with you on the 9mm, I opted for .357SIG to carry on duty. Now, as far as the 5.56 goes, yes there are better calibers out there suited for home defense. Thats not to say that the right ammo in 5.56 wont do the job just as good though. If I had a choice I would carry 6.8 on duty, but my dept only allows 5.56. I trust my life to this ammo and feel confident it will do the job. Plus availability is another thing you need to consider. Remember its round placement that counts and to keep proficient you should visit the range at least once a month, this can get expencive with higher cals.
So…you should probably read all the stickies provided here. http://m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91
Then realize that the amount and quality of your wife’s training will have a bazillion times more impact on her ability to survive a gunfight than a few fractions of an inch of bullet diameter.
What constitutes making it cool for showing off and special tricks? If you mean you don’t want to add a rail or fancy stock, fine…rock on.
So, I’ll give you a great quote for the road.
When it comes to the guy in our house despite the dogs and the alarm system, I want a round that will put him down regardless where it hits. In a high-stress situation, shot placement suffers. That and I’m worried about said person being a drug user (lots of meth in my area). It has to overpower his high and drop him anyway. Which is why I spend the extra money for a .45 for my duty pistol for my Constable duties.
Well, that and neither of us is a real good shot, anyway. We need a forgiving round even before the other considerations kick in.
Edit: I’m working through them Thopkins. There’s a lot of info there.
Comparing what a Civilian can use for 5.56N and 9mm to what a person in the military can use is like comparing apples and oranges, right? Given that the military is limited to FMJ’s given the Geneva Convention ban against Hollow Point type ammo, a civilian is not limited to that.
If she feels comfortable shooting it, shoots it well, and is accurate you should let her get it. Remember Larry Vickers motto “Speed is Fine. Accuracy is Final.”
Having all the best SD weapon, with the best SD loads means squat if you can’t hit the target you are aiming at.
Not trying to tell you otherwise, but look at what DocGKR had to say about the .30 Cal round. Remember, this is ballistic info and if you have questions about ballistics, he is the man to see, just pointing you to the right area.
His write up on5.56N Duty Loadsloads is here.
Great luck in your search.
Also, since you say that neither of you are great shots, hit the range and do both of you a favor and take some classes.
Hate to be the one to break it to you but .45/.308 isn’t going to do anything magical that a .9mm/5.56mm won’t do. The .45/.308 isn’t guaranteed to drop anyone, any differently either :rolleyes:
Every time I hear or read that, I think about 1908. But whatever. History could be wrong.
To quote another user.
‘‘I’ve never seen somebody survive a shot from a 9mm that a .45, or .40 would have killed them. On the other hand, I’ve also never seen somebody die from a .45 or .40 where a 9mm wouldn’t have gotten the job done either.’’
Yeah, I’ve been working on that. After 20 years of shooting, I can Finally, officially, hit the broad side of a barn at 100 yards.
She’s already at that point after 4 years. It’s a little annoying.
This thread makes my head hurt.
Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Noveske, Colt LE6920. Pick one. Aimpoint, light, PMAGs. Training, training, training. Then more training.
Every time I hear or read that, I think about 1908. But whatever. History could be wrong.
You’re referring to the one thing armchair commandos always point to “The US adopted the .45 to replace weak .38 revolvers after experience in the Philippines yada yada yada”
This is the problem. If you can’t hit them with a 9mm a .45 isn’t going to save you. In fact carrying less ammunition in the .45, typically, would be a problem due to not having the additional rounds to attempt to put into the bad guy. Just some food for thought.
I could mail you some aspirin…
Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, Noveske, Colt LE6920. Pick one. Aimpoint, light, PMAGs.
Much thanks.
Training, training, training. Then more training.
Yes. I know. God, I know. One benefit of having our own weapons is being Able to train. I already shoot my .45 better than my M16. In another few months, I’ll have put more shots through my .45 than through every M16 I’ve ever held combined. I expect that to hold true when I get my own rifle, too.
You’re referring to the one thing armchair commandos always point to “The US adopted the .45 to replace weak .38 revolvers after experience in the Philippines yada yada yada”
- The .38 cartridges used back then were rather anemic. 9mm ammunition today is quite a bit different.
- That was over a hundred years ago. Much has changed since.
- We have hollowpoints. And good ones at that.
and 2) send me back to the links provided above for DocGKRs posts where he seems to disagree with you. .45, especially in a 1911 is what he considers ideal; and 5.56 is far from ideal in his opinion, but I haven’t figured out what he likes best in a rifle.
Of course, that could just be how I’m reading it…
Hollow points, ftw. When you absolutely, positively have to make the kill ASAP. Right now I’m trying to figure out my duty ammo and like Remington Gold Sabres best. So far. But I haven’t even seen the ones DocGKR recommends, let alone fired them. Not sure I could afford them.
Anyway, thank you again for the info up top. Now I need to look at them specifically.
The only reason I even own a 6.8 rifle, is because while I like the bonus of being more effective out of an SBR (which all my rifles are) it has the option for subsonic loads.
If I was going non SBR it would be all 5.56.
Sorry? “SBR?”
Short Barrel Rifle - Less than 16" barrel. Requires ATF tax stamp for Joe Citizens.